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Old 10-05-2017, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
21,452 posts, read 28,329,018 times
Reputation: 9739

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
Since the top 1% of earners pay about 40% of the taxes and the bottom 50% pay about 2% of the taxes, statements like this one from CR are very misleading and just work against a productive discussion.

That is only true if employment taxes are NOT called taxes.

 
Old 10-05-2017, 08:59 AM
 
29,764 posts, read 34,848,700 times
Reputation: 11675
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
Hey Ariadne,
I actually thought about you living in WI before I drafted my post but plowed ahead anyway because my friends and I aren't referring to WI or MI, etc. when using the term "flyover country". We're talking about those in the middle such as Kansas, Oklahoma, etc., I think you get my drift. Those hard workers have absolutely no say regarding your locale's tax policies. How can one even pretend to argue otherwise? (Not that I'm accusing you of arguing otherwise - your reply does not address the fairness of the policy.)

I was hoping someone could point me to another similarly favored federal tax deduction but we're not there yet.

*In deference to Tuborg I intentionally left out that the ridiculous deduction also applies for those with second homes.
Yup, big difference between here and up there. We don't itemize here. One house paid for and a small mortgage on the other and hardly any non Medicare premium medical. I was thinking about up there because I know some folks who could get squeezed if state and local deductions couldn't be used. They might sink if they couldn't deduct mortgage interest. Think of those folks who bought houses 50 years ago of decent size with 5 acre lots and now with all the growth their house appraises for tons.
 
Old 10-05-2017, 09:33 AM
 
Location: WA
5,392 posts, read 21,385,099 times
Reputation: 5884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
That is only true if employment taxes are NOT called taxes.
There are no federal employment taxes. If you are referring to FICA please look at the long threads on the subject that point out it is insurance (Federal Insurance Contribution Act) that supports Social Security, the primary retirement plan in the country. You may not like the way SS is required, funded, or distributes benefits but that is a different subject than income taxes.
 
Old 10-05-2017, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 688,948 times
Reputation: 2736
Payroll taxes are taxes, regardless of what they are used for. So are excise, estate, and customs taxes, as well as state and local taxes.

Total Tax Bill by Income Group

Last edited by 17thAndK; 10-05-2017 at 10:13 AM..
 
Old 10-05-2017, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
1,362 posts, read 764,777 times
Reputation: 2428
Your Chart is a little sketchy there, 17. I see it's dated 2012, but probably still directionally correct. From the Washington Post too, so you know it's accurate.

But how are they adding in your Excise Taxes ?? The sample group must have a huge Liquor Bill.
Customs Taxes ?? World Travelers, I guess.

And how are they accounting for State and Local Taxes across a large number of States ? But that's not the Issue here.

This Thread is about the Effects of Trump Tax on Retirees. It's already been shown that the High Earners will fare better than the lower end of the Income spectrum.

Last edited by FiveLoaves; 10-05-2017 at 11:46 AM..
 
Old 10-05-2017, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
21,452 posts, read 28,329,018 times
Reputation: 9739
The sample size must have a huge Liquor Bill.


Probably mine.
 
Old 10-05-2017, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 688,948 times
Reputation: 2736
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveLoaves View Post
Your Chart is a little sketchy there, 17. I see it's dated 2012, but probably still directionally correct. From the Washington Post too, so you know it's accurate.
No, it's not sketchy at all, as you yourself actually admit. As for The Post, they published the table in a blog about taxes. The table itself was produced by the left-leaning Institute for Taxes and Economic Policy from data produced by tax collection authorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveLoaves View Post
But how are they adding in your Excise Taxes ?? The sample size must have a huge Liquor Bill.
Or they smoke, drive, or shoot a lot, the actual point being that excise taxes in general are just another regressive tax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveLoaves View Post
This Thread is about the Effects of Trump Tax on Retirees. It's already been shown that the High Earners will fare better than the lower end of the Income spectrum.
Context is always important. These "no skin in the game" posts about large percentages of people paying no taxes ever need to be called out and rebutted.
 
Old 10-05-2017, 12:07 PM
 
318 posts, read 342,502 times
Reputation: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Positive, negative, no change?
Any thoughts?

Edit: there is another thread in Economics but I am hoping fro relevance fro retirees who have more than minimum income.
Why are you poking around with something that hasn't even happened yet?

Just stirring things up?

THERE IS NO PLAN APPROVED YET!!!
 
Old 10-05-2017, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
1,362 posts, read 764,777 times
Reputation: 2428
What I'm finding difficult about the Chart is --
They have the 0-40 percent groups at the bottom rung as paying about 20% of Income in overall Taxes ?? We can estimate that Income Range puts them at $20K - $25K. That's not enough to own a house and pay Local RE Taxes, is it ?? They're renting.
How did the chart estimate the State Income Tax on $20K over several different States ??
How much Excise Tax are they smoking and drinking ?? And what the heck are they shooting ??

20% of $25K is $5 Grand.....I think this chart overstates the amount of Taxes at the low end of the Range.
Probably at the high end too.

Last edited by FiveLoaves; 10-05-2017 at 12:27 PM..
 
Old 10-05-2017, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,534 posts, read 43,962,244 times
Reputation: 15135
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
We're talking about those in the middle such as Kansas, Oklahoma, etc., I think you get my drift. Those hard workers have absolutely no say regarding your locale's tax policies. How can one even pretend to argue otherwise? (Not that I'm accusing you of arguing otherwise - your reply does not address the fairness of the policy.)
This, then, begs the question of should all areas of the country be equal - equal household incomes, equal costs of living, etc., equal in population size? A national minimum wage v. a state minimum wage?

Regional differences exist because of highly-populated urban environment (always more expensive when it comes to social services) v. less densely populated rural environments. It's apples and oranges. Or, for the sake of fairness, should we mandate that everyone live in rural, less populated areas with its attendant lower COLA? Or, conversely, should everyone live in densely populated cities? Should the govt determine that prices be the same everywhere - no regional difference - regardless of the real cost of delivering services in an area.

People have a free choice on where they live. I choose to live where I do - high taxes and all. People in flyover country or rural low-tax areas choose to live where they do. Imo, the standard deduction is probably a real GIFT to them. Is that fair?

We are now seriously off-topic on this thread.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 10-05-2017 at 04:18 PM..
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