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Old 10-05-2017, 03:43 AM
 
71,831 posts, read 71,919,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
My problem with your responses is that you immediately assumed people were trying to game the system and do something fraudulent.
no , i said as presented it sound like it could be trying to push it in to territory it does not belong , and without knowing her story and all the details of their health but going by what is said here i am still not so sure it isn't . but that is my opinion.

it is a system that is terribly abused and there are so many who don't really belong on it and i stand by that statement .
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:35 AM
 
4,451 posts, read 2,626,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meo92953 View Post
It's as said before. They're only entitled to a certain percentage, not to exceed x # of $'s. There are laws in place so they can't take too much, which is why they won't take the case unless it's a sure thing. They got paid directly by social security before I received my check.

The consultation is free.
I had a free legal aid representative.
She really did nothing, as I had done all of the listing of medical facilities and doctors I saw and SSDI petitioned my medical records.

My legal aid rep didn't have nearly any of that documentation, but said she'd rep me if I insisted, I said I do and told her she didn't have all the records. She was surprised when the ALJ showed her in preappearance to my case,the paperwork involved in my case. She had no idea, for example I had two serious suicide attempts ( a third later) due to severe depressive episodes for example. Or that I got injections in the nerves of my back, or that I have been taking continuous prescriptions of morphine and codeine as directed by the doctor.
She was amazed when she saw the whole profile and the ALJ said he had absolutely no problem approving my case.
It was a "win" for her case file. I never had to pay. But I also had Medicaid. That may have made the difference.

Mathjak there are people and unscrupulous doctors and lawyers who will game the system, but for to automatically assume she is is entirely wrong.

I have gone back to work part time, aboutall I can handle, and yes, SSDI knows anout it. Yes I'm allowed, and yes, if I'm under Substantial Gain Activity (SGA) I will continue to receive my SSDI benefit. SGA determines continued benefits.

As I said before, I am amazed at how many people THINK they know more about the program than I, or anyone applying for or receiving SSDI does!!!

I want to say "harumph" here but don't think a serious matter is one to say that to.

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Old 10-05-2017, 04:38 AM
 
71,831 posts, read 71,919,037 times
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i never said she is gaming the system .

i said there are a lot of fuzzy details in her post that can have us thinking that . but no one said she is gaming the system , we just don't know because the post does not tell the whole story. if we go buy the post then yeah it sounds iffy , but that does not mean once the situation is evaluated that it is . all we can go by is what is posted .
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,253 posts, read 8,564,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
What went wrong with my SSDI case, is that I didn't know that I should apply for SSDI immediately. I first used up my workers comp, then state disability, before I finally filed for SSDI. By the time I got a hearing, my work credits were too far in the past to qualify me for SSDI. So, even though I was found to be disabled, I could only qualify for SSI, which would pay a fraction of the amount of SSDI.

And the only thing I did wrong that caused that - was waiting to file the SSDI claim.

Everyone agreed I was disabled from the same date, including SSA, the state and workers comp. But, the SSA system doesn't allow any flexibility for people who don't know they should file immediately.

Now, if I had known I should file immediately, would I have "gamed the system"?

The system is a disaster. But, it certainly is not easy to get disability. You have to have a personal physician and psychiatrist, etc., willing to put their career on the line saying you're disabled. You then are scrutinized by SSA's doctors whose job it is to find a way to deny you. So you have to convince them, too.

Then, you have to convince a judge with all of the medical records and reports by all of these doctors who are putting their careers on the line, were they to lie - or they are reports from the professionals hired by the SSA who are doing their best to prove you are not disabled.

And, you can't have been working a full-time job or earning with "substantial gainful employment" for usually several years prior to the hearing. Why would anyone put themselves through this, in order to live below the poverty line?

The idea that this is the fat life is so ludicrous it's astonishing that any educated or otherwise rational person would ever think that it was the goal of shysters everywhere. Sheesh, it would be a lot more lucrative to grow pot in a closet and make money selling it, than try to deal with getting SSDI or SSI.

Just shaking my head.
NMSFM - people who pay taxes take advantage of every loophole and feel perfectly within their rights to do so - they don't consider it to be "gaming" in any way. It is really only a difference in perspective that they try to say someone in your situation is trying to game her way into something. You have followed the rules and jumped through the hoops - so just keep living your life as best you are able.
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:14 AM
 
71,831 posts, read 71,919,037 times
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keeping more of your income you earned, legally through legal tax reduction , is different from taking money that wasn't earned by you if you want to get down to the differences .

you may have paid in to various social programs as we all have , via our income , and never take part in any of these social programs , but it is not the same as keeping more of your earned income .

there is a difference and you can't compare the two .

Last edited by mathjak107; 10-05-2017 at 06:59 AM..
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,134 posts, read 23,037,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
keeping more of your income you earned, legally through legal tax reduction , is different from taking money that wasn't earned by you if you want to get down to the differences .

you may have paid in to various social programs as we all have , via our income , and never take part in any of these social programs , but it is not the same as keeping more of your earned income .

there is a difference and you can't compare the two .
Well, the difference is, perhaps, that it's insurance as opposed to taxes?

Anyone on SSDI - ONLY gets it based on their work credits. So, um, yes, they earned it. And it's legal.

Those of us who are on disability, as you have seen, do not immediately think that anyone trying to get it - regardless of fuzzy details - is trying to get something they don't have a legal right to.

The kind of thinking you are displaying, which is unfortunately prevalent among people who don't understand disabilities, is that anyone who receives disability money, is probably doing so fraudulently, and then looks for any fuzzy details that proves that way of thinking.

You can find "proof" of anything, if that's your mindset. For instance, it has been "proven" that the bible says aliens came to the planet.

Is there more tax fraud than SSDI fraud? I bet there is.

It really always goes back to the social stigma of being disabled, and the Protestant type of thinking that the original Europeans brought to America - that if a person is not successful monetarily in the US that they are shameful in God's eyes, and so forth. If a person can no longer be productive, they are therefore worthless.

Fortunately, there have been legal minds who have seen the discrimination and unfairness of this, and got laws on the books that make it not only illegal to discriminate under certain circumstances, but also gives disabled people the legal right to receive money from a system they actually did pay into, as a type of insurance, if they become disabled. And, hey, then they get to live below the poverty line, but at least they have an income.

Then, they went further, thank God for me, where if someone like me missed the window of my most recent work credits, or if someone just became disabled without enough work credits, they can also receive benefits that put them WAY below the poverty line.

But, really, what confounds me the most is that anyone would think there is this huge problem of people doing whatever they can to be able to live below the poverty level in America. As if it's some luxury existence.

If anything, Mathjak, you are normally rational as far as numbers go. Does this really make any sense to you, once you take out the ingrained stigma that anyone who is receiving government aid must be lazy somehow?

But, as far as fraud and government funds, I'm betting tax fraud (aka stealing from the government) affects the government budgets in a far greater way than any fraud done by people trying to get money that will keep them in poverty.

Last edited by NoMoreSnowForMe; 10-05-2017 at 08:08 AM.. Reason: further not farther
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:47 AM
 
71,831 posts, read 71,919,037 times
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we can consider any social programs we pay in to as insurance . but accepting insurance without meeting the requirements would be insurance fraud . accepting insurance payments we pay in to has nothing to do with keeping more of our earned income via tax reductions . the two are not comparable .

so equating saving more of the income we worked for with payments from insurance of any kind is not apples to apples . in either case you have to be legally able to do what you do , that is as close a comparison as you can make .

our fair share of taxes is the lowest amount we can get them down to using the tools and laws given to us .

meeting insurance requirements to collect something is not the same thing .
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,134 posts, read 23,037,051 times
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Here we go. This Fortune magazine article says that the estimated loss to the IRS due to tax evasion is approximately $458 billion dollars a year. That's with a "B".

I.R.S. Says Tax Evasion Costs the U.S. Government $458 Billion a Year | Fortune

This Time article (that happens to be about Trump's proposal to slash it) says that the SSDI program actually costs the federal government roughly $192 billion dollars a year.

Donald Trump Budget: Who Loses Disability Benefits | Time.com

So, the total cost of the SSDI program, without looking at the percentage of fraud, is less than half of the total the government is losing from tax fraud.

So there's no comparison whatsoever. And, nobody's ranting about or shaming these people for costing the government enough to actually pay for the programs Trump wants to slash. So, how about we start shaming and focusing on collecting from the criminal tax evaders?

Last edited by NoMoreSnowForMe; 10-05-2017 at 08:10 AM.. Reason: fixed sentence that was redundant - "to fund to actually pay for"
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:59 AM
 
71,831 posts, read 71,919,037 times
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what are you posting that for ? tax evasion is criminal . i said legally used tools and laws to reduce your taxes on money you earned ., not tax fraud , not tax evasion . those are crimes ...

it is a simple issue . saving more of ones income earned legally has nothing to do with putting in insurance claims and is not apples to apples .

if i save money on my taxes no one is coming to you and taking it back . . but when it comes to insurance we all have it taken back because that is how insurance works , it is pooled risk and the pool pays .
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Old 10-05-2017, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,134 posts, read 23,037,051 times
Reputation: 35383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
we can consider any social programs we pay in to as insurance . but accepting insurance without meeting the requirements would be insurance fraud . accepting insurance payments we pay in to has nothing to do with keeping more of our earned income via tax reductions . the two are not comparable .

so equating saving more of the income we worked for with payments from insurance of any kind is not apples to apples . in either case you have to be legally able to do what you do , that is as close a comparison as you can make .

our fair share of taxes is the lowest amount we can get them down to using the tools and laws given to us .

meeting insurance requirements to collect something is not the same thing .
But, you are assuming that people who want to collect on their insurance, are somehow bad people or must be doing something fraudulent.

Your attitude is apparent, to me, and represents a prevalent attitude, unfortunately, in that there is an assumption that people who receive SSDI probably don't deserve it. And those who want to believe it will always justify it, from my experience.
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