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Old 10-15-2017, 01:52 PM
 
71,998 posts, read 72,020,102 times
Reputation: 49560

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i am done here . i made my point . there is enough info here already for those interested to think about .

i thought you sell this stuff because you disregard the fact these are extremely expensive because of the inefficient use of your money as a way of trying to get ltc coverage . but now that answers the question -you sell them ! gee i am shocked

Last edited by mathjak107; 10-15-2017 at 02:01 PM..
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:00 PM
 
216 posts, read 114,823 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
i thought you sell this stuff because you disregard the fact these are extremely expensive ways of trying to get ltc coverage . but now that answers the question -you sell them !
I sell them all. You are fixated one point and can't see the forest for the trees. Good luck, I am tired of trying to educate you. We will have to agree to disagree
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Old 10-15-2017, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,862,845 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post
Lets compare atraditional policy like you bought to an asset based one:

Are premiums guaranteed to never change?
Yours, no they can and do change. What if you faced a 100% rate increase as some have?
Asset based, can never change

Do the plans cover a long tail claim that may go on for 10-15 years?
Yours, sorry no
Asset based plans, yes lifetime coverage

If you never make a claim what happens to the premiums paid in?
Yours, lost.
Asset based, all returned

Is it partnership qualified?
yours, yes
Asset based, no.

You keep espousing how bad they are and much more expensive they are but never explain.

Obviously this is a product that is not suited for you.
A couple of points here that I think are worth noting. First underlined. Having a base rate that can never increase sounds great. It goes nicely with the green underlined where your assets are returned in their entirety. Having no interest payment makes sense economically for both parties. Yes the company might make some good money on the asset but they are taking the bigger of the two risks. Having payments that never go up makes it much easier to manage financially in the long run but I can see how that it is hard to sell folks on the product.

I stayed out of this thread as there are and have been lots of threads on LTCi. One of them I started. This is an emotional topic and one that everyone has an opinion on it. It has got pretty contentious at times. All of us do need to understand this that we are discussing not arguing. A person needs to be able to join in the discussion and not be ridiculed nor ridicule others for their opinions.

Now does that change my mind on our plan? No not at the moment. I guess things could change and if they do I might look at that. I just hate putting a large sum of money out to do that but essentially I am doing that in a way by keeping my LTC asset in real estate.
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Old 10-15-2017, 05:57 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,395 posts, read 2,143,723 times
Reputation: 2193
Thanks everyone. I'm not interested in the investment side of this. I'm thinking of ways to be able to afford our care and not so much about asset protection. I just want straight insurance in case something goes wrong we will at least have some help paying for our care so we can be self insured between the LTC and our income. It's very important to me that the coverage have unlimited number of years because I wish to retain some type of way to pay for my care and not end up on medicare for this. I checked and this policy does qualify for the State partnership program so there is that.

I just can't believe that the FPO is so cheap compared to the prepaid inflation ones. I checked the BLS and it would take 38 years for the FPO to increase to the 5 ACI premium. If is all it goes up by is the rate of inflation it seems like the obvious choice. Why would someone prepay so much just to have the payments "seem" lower because of the effect of inflation? Either way the FPO is the only way I can afford a decent policy anyway.

This is what I'm thinking of going with:

49F
$200 day unlimited $99.80 monthly (73000 yr) OR
$250 day unlimited $124 (91250 yr)



53M
$200 day unlimited $128.06 monthly


I'm not considering the 250 one for him because being male it's less likely he'll end up in a nursing home plus he'll also probably have me to help him. The reason I'm considering the 250 for me is because my family history (my grandparents) is an extended period of needing help. I'm not so sure though because it covers me totally unless I end up in a facility. I think I can make up the difference between the policy and the bill with my income or a small amount of assets.
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:02 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,503 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post
Lets compare atraditional policy like you bought to an asset based one:

If you never make a claim what happens to the premiums paid in?
Yours, lost.
Asset based, all returned

Asset based policies don't always return the full premium.
In some cases the death benefit is less than the total premiums paid.
With some of the policies if you cancel it part of the refund is taxable as income.
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:04 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,503 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post
Lets compare atraditional policy like you bought to an asset based one:

Are premiums guaranteed to never change?
Yours, no they can and do change. What if you faced a 100% rate increase as some have?
Asset based, can never change

If I have a 100% rate increase, my premium will still be lower than the hybrid.
If I have a 150% rate increase, my premium will probably still be lower than the hybrid.
If I have a 200% rate increase, my premium will still probably be lower than the hybrid.
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:07 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,503 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post
Lets compare atraditional policy like you bought to an asset based one:



Do the plans cover a long tail claim that may go on for 10-15 years?
Yours, sorry no
Asset based plans, yes lifetime coverage



There are traditional policies where couples can share 15 to 16 years of benefits.
There are traditional policies where couples can share a million in benefits.

If my spouse and I can buy a million dollars of LTCi benefits is it worth spending 150% more for a hybrid policy
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:12 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,503 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post

Is it partnership qualified?
yours, yes
Asset based, no.


The hybrid policies are more suitable for someone who's retirement income is high enough that they could never benefit from an LTC Partnership policy.

LTC Partnership policies are perfect for people who's income is low enough that they could benefit from an LTC Partnership policy.

That's the key to determining which type of policy is best for each client.
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,503 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post
Lets compare atraditional policy like you bought to an asset based one:

Are premiums guaranteed to never change?
Yours, no they can and do change. What if you faced a 100% rate increase as some have?
Asset based, can never change

Fortunately, your state of Tennessee has passed a Rate Stability Regulation.

Tennessee enacted their regulation on August 14th, 2004. Tennessee residents purchasing long-term care insurance after that date are protected by Tennessee’s Rate Stability Regulation. The regulation has helped curb long-term care insurance rate increases in Tennessee because it forces long-term care insurance companies to lower their profits if they seek a rate increase. Of the 13 companies selling long-term care insurance in Tennessee today, 9 of them have NOT had any rate increases on any of the policies they’ve sold in Tennessee since the effective date of this regulation (8/14/2004). Approximately 92.9% of the long-term care insurance rate increases in Tennessee have been on policies purchased before August 14th, 2004. Policies purchased before August 14th, 2004 are NOT protected by Tennessee’s Rate Stability Regulation.
Of the policies purchased after August 14th, 2004 which have had rate increases, the average rate increase has been 34.68% (cumulative). The median rate increase has been 22.00% (cumulative).
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:29 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,503 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Thanks everyone. I'm not interested in the investment side of this. I'm thinking of ways to be able to afford our care and not so much about asset protection. I just want straight insurance in case something goes wrong we will at least have some help paying for our care so we can be self insured between the LTC and our income. It's very important to me that the coverage have unlimited number of years because I wish to retain some type of way to pay for my care and not end up on medicare for this. I checked and this policy does qualify for the State partnership program so there is that.

I just can't believe that the FPO is so cheap compared to the prepaid inflation ones. I checked the BLS and it would take 38 years for the FPO to increase to the 5 ACI premium. If is all it goes up by is the rate of inflation it seems like the obvious choice. Why would someone prepay so much just to have the payments "seem" lower because of the effect of inflation? Either way the FPO is the only way I can afford a decent policy anyway.

This is what I'm thinking of going with:

49F
$200 day unlimited $99.80 monthly (73000 yr) OR
$250 day unlimited $124 (91250 yr)



53M
$200 day unlimited $128.06 monthly


I'm not considering the 250 one for him because being male it's less likely he'll end up in a nursing home plus he'll also probably have me to help him. The reason I'm considering the 250 for me is because my family history (my grandparents) is an extended period of needing help. I'm not so sure though because it covers me totally unless I end up in a facility. I think I can make up the difference between the policy and the bill with my income or a small amount of assets.


The FPO increases your benefits every 2 years according to the CPI-U.
However your premium increases will be based upon your age at the time of the increase.

In other words, the premium increase is CPI-U plus a factor based upon your age at that time of the increase.

That's why the FPO is so much cheaper now.


The FLTCIP is NOT qualified as a Minnesota Long Term Care Partnership Program.

You should probably consider a Mass Mutual LTCi policy with a 3% compound inflation benefit or a Mutual of Omaha policy with a 1% or 2% compound inflation benefit (just increase the monthly benefit to compensate for the lower inflation benefit.)

Whatever you do, do it quickly. Mass Mutual's coming out with a new policy in the next 3 to 6 months and you're probably better off with their current policy rather than the new one.

(fyi... most agents do NOT represent Mass Mutual.)
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