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Old 01-07-2018, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,696 posts, read 4,731,975 times
Reputation: 28233

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Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
One is a spender and lives paycheck to paycheck. She's the more frustrating one because she COULD save, at least something, if she tried.

The other frets more about money but has faced a combination of bad luck and bad choices and is paying down debt that unfortunately never seems to go away.
So they both have fraught emotional relationships with money.

You can talk budgeting and saving and investing until you're blue in the face but until the underlying dysfunction is addressed, none of it will do any good. These people need therapy, not retirement advice.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:34 AM
 
29,788 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11715
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
I would not help out people who don't save for retirement.


How does someone reach the age of 65 and not have one dime saved in an account anywhere?
Not trying to be smart but by reaching ages 25,35,45,55, and 60 without having as a friend of ours said about one of her adult sons " not having two nickels to rub together".
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Dayton, OH
611 posts, read 275,057 times
Reputation: 2643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
I used to be a nagging moralist, excoriating the deficient for their poor behavior and lack of planning. Now Iím becoming more mellowÖ less from a live-and-let-live detachment, or from a humble attention to personal foibles before assaying with judgment of others, but from seeing so many cases, where the assiduous planners still manage to fail, and the oblivious bumblers somehow manage to succeed. More and more, Iím amazed how obese chain-smoking couch-potatoes eventually die of Alzheimerís at age 90, while marathon-running sugar-busting boneless-chicken teetotalers die of cancer at 40. Itís almost as if thereís a sardonically manipulative preternatural leveling-force, that dumbs-down the brilliant and sharpens the dull, that upsets the planners and lifts up the hapless. This is not, of course, a call to live exclusively for the moment, disregarding entirely the future. But it is a realization, that we have less control over our lives than we think, whether in terms of improving ourselves, or in screwing up.

Just remember what happened to Oedipus and Jocasta.
Right on, OH Peasant.

You know what they say: "Man plans, and God laughs." Well, in my case it has always been, "Man plans, and God says F- You."

I still keep planning, however. I have always been stubborn that way. :-)

It does seem that the meanest, most evil and hurtful people live forever. It's as if Heaven doesn't want them either, so here on Earth they stay to torment the rest of us.

Many years ago, I worked at an assisted living center in PA. The Director of Wellness was a slender, health-conscious woman who always ate right. Her hobby was BALLET, of all things, and she was as lean and fit as anyone I had ever known.

I married and moved away. A year later when I returned to visit, I asked where this woman had gone.

She had died. Cancer, I think. Of all people. Go figure.

So, by all means, go have another cookie if you want one.
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,732 posts, read 1,474,742 times
Reputation: 5803
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
It recently came up in conversations with a couple of people I know (I know them separately, I don't mean they are a couple) that neither of them is saving anything at all for retirement. Nada, zilch, zero. They are both around 50, working full time, career type jobs but for different reasons, neither is saving anything at all. They both rent, so they won't have the fall back of a paid off home to live in. One of them seems to have a small employer funded 401k, so that's at best a few percent of salary, the other one I know for sure doesn't contribute at all and there is no employer contribution, so they truly have absolutely nothing saved for retirement.

I know the best answer is to keep my mouth shut, but would you say anything at all, maybe point them to some really, really basic budgeting and saving information? If you would say anything, do you have an specific websites or books you'd suggest?

At this point, I'm thinking I wouldn't initiate a conversation but if the subject came up again, I might say something like "I have some resources I could suggest if you wanted to take a look". But then again, it might fall on deaf ears given that the answer to "what do you plan to live on in retirement" was basically a shrug.
Stand in front of the mirror and say shut up.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,189 posts, read 11,808,808 times
Reputation: 32206
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
So they both have fraught emotional relationships with money.

You can talk budgeting and saving and investing until you're blue in the face but until the underlying dysfunction is addressed, none of it will do any good. These people need therapy, not retirement advice.
This is an interesting take. Maybe the first one because yes, I think that shopping is self-medicating in a way for her and while I'm sure there are things about her life that I don't know about, at least from the outside, it does seem like she could make some not terribly draconian changes and start putting away money towards retirement. (It could be too little, too late, of course, but still, 10 or 15 years of saving is still better than none!)

The second one, I'm not sure it's true because I haven't really seen anything that makes me feel this is the case, but I can't say it's not. But I think it really is more about not earning enough money to cover some of the unexpected expenses she's had. Maybe a little bit of spending more than she should, but really not in an excessive way, at least from what I've seen. She doesn't buy expensive stuff or take extravagant vacations or go out to restaurants all the time or anything like that. I do think she could be more aggressive about finding a better job and trying to negotiate a higher salary though that is still very difficult for some women to do.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,304 posts, read 10,777,599 times
Reputation: 20540
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
It recently came up in conversations with a couple of people I know (I know them separately, I don't mean they are a couple) that neither of them is saving anything at all for retirement. Nada, zilch, zero. They are both around 50, working full time, career type jobs but for different reasons, neither is saving anything at all. They both rent, so they won't have the fall back of a paid off home to live in. One of them seems to have a small employer funded 401k, so that's at best a few percent of salary, the other one I know for sure doesn't contribute at all and there is no employer contribution, so they truly have absolutely nothing saved for retirement.

I know the best answer is to keep my mouth shut, but would you say anything at all, maybe point them to some really, really basic budgeting and saving information? If you would say anything, do you have an specific websites or books you'd suggest?

At this point, I'm thinking I wouldn't initiate a conversation but if the subject came up again, I might say something like "I have some resources I could suggest if you wanted to take a look". But then again, it might fall on deaf ears given that the answer to "what do you plan to live on in retirement" was basically a shrug.
I'd mind my own business. What others are planning or not planning for retirement is not of my concern. I stay out of other's finances.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:40 PM
 
4,489 posts, read 4,748,002 times
Reputation: 9957
I haven't read the whole thread but if any co-workers/friends/ family said they haven't saved... it's really too late. They are all older and at some point you just can't make up for all those lost years.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:15 PM
 
1,291 posts, read 294,016 times
Reputation: 1538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
I used to be a nagging moralist, excoriating the deficient for their poor behavior and lack of planning. Now Iím becoming more mellowÖ less from a live-and-let-live detachment, or from a humble attention to personal foibles before assaying with judgment of others, but from seeing so many cases, where the assiduous planners still manage to fail, and the oblivious bumblers somehow manage to succeed. More and more, Iím amazed how obese chain-smoking couch-potatoes eventually die of Alzheimerís at age 90, while marathon-running sugar-busting boneless-chicken teetotalers die of cancer at 40. Itís almost as if thereís a sardonically manipulative preternatural leveling-force, that dumbs-down the brilliant and sharpens the dull, that upsets the planners and lifts up the hapless. This is not, of course, a call to live exclusively for the moment, disregarding entirely the future. But it is a realization, that we have less control over our lives than we think, whether in terms of improving ourselves, or in screwing up.

Just remember what happened to Oedipus and Jocasta.
Awesome post. I too have noticed what you described. I remain convinced genetics is king when it comes to longevity, with clean living and blind luck running neck-and-neck for second. We certainly don't know when our number is up, but I think a little due diligence or even a bit of sacrifice is in order to facilitate our comfort in the event we make it to our elder years, whatever that means. I don't want to be a ward of the working if I can help it.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,542 posts, read 44,050,913 times
Reputation: 15155
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
but I still wouldn't want to see someone I'm friends with homeless.
They won't be homeless. They can move into subsidized senior housing available everywhere for 30% of their SS checks. They can be dual eligibles for Medicare/Medicaid - and even have their Medicare Part B premium paid in some states and have little in the way of medical expenses. Medicaid even has some dental and vision benefits, iirc. The remaining 70% of their SS checks they can use to buy food, they may even qualify for food stamps depending where they live, eat their dinners at senior centers, take the bus wherever they're going. They won't be homeless. They just won't have much in the way of fun money and will have to count pennies - and maybe even go bankrupt once or twice while retired. Many seniors do. Run up what they can't pay cash for on credit cards.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:37 PM
 
345 posts, read 155,144 times
Reputation: 601
Why would you say anything unless they've asked for your advice? They're obviously not concerned about it so why should you be?
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