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Old 01-06-2018, 08:51 AM
 
911 posts, read 532,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
I used to be a nagging moralist, excoriating the deficient for their poor behavior and lack of planning. Now Iím becoming more mellowÖ less from a live-and-let-live detachment, or from a humble attention to personal foibles before assaying with judgment of others, but from seeing so many cases, where the assiduous planners still manage to fail, and the oblivious bumblers somehow manage to succeed. More and more, Iím amazed how obese chain-smoking couch-potatoes eventually die of Alzheimerís at age 90, while marathon-running sugar-busting boneless-chicken teetotalers die of cancer at 40. Itís almost as if thereís a sardonically manipulative preternatural leveling-force, that dumbs-down the brilliant and sharpens the dull, that upsets the planners and lifts up the hapless. This is not, of course, a call to live exclusively for the moment, disregarding entirely the future. But it is a realization, that we have less control over our lives than we think, whether in terms of improving ourselves, or in screwing up.

Just remember what happened to Oedipus and Jocasta.
Haha, loved this. Was just talking to a friend about how the senior years can be the great equalizer. My uncle has always been extremely unhealthy, eating whatever he wanted, no exercise, stressful job and very obese. He is 400 pounds yet he's still "kickin" at 75. Meanwhile my aunt (his sister) who was a healthfood nut, always into self-improvement, eating right and exercising died quickly of cancer at 67. To be fair if it were not for healthcare advances my uncle would have died a long time ago as he has had stents put in, different surgeries, takes tons of medications,etc.

As for the financial aspect of not planning for the senior years I have witnessed a similar equalization. I grew up with a friend whose family lived the high life. Beautiful homes, snazzy cars, lots of vacations and the best of everything. Things later went south financially but they had many great years. I watched another friend's super-frugal parents do the opposite. Always put any extra money back into their business, never vacationed, drove old cars into the ground all for planning for the future. Now both mothers are in the SAME rest home. One is private-pay (10k a month until assets are depleted) while the other is Medicaid paid (no assets left). When I think how they lived it does make me wonder who is the wise or foolish one. My friend, the daughter of the spenders, has many great memories of a fun childhood, while the other friend has none of that.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,806 posts, read 4,854,199 times
Reputation: 19517
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Get new friends. The friends who never learned the lessons of the parable of the 3 Little Pigs do not possess good judgment. They do not possess good decision making skills.
I think it's more the fable of the ant and the grasshopper actually.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,253 posts, read 8,560,668 times
Reputation: 35693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradomom22 View Post
Haha, loved this. Was just talking to a friend about how the senior years can be the great equalizer. My uncle has always been extremely unhealthy, eating whatever he wanted, no exercise, stressful job and very obese. He is 400 pounds yet he's still "kickin" at 75. Meanwhile my aunt (his sister) who was a healthfood nut, always into self-improvement, eating right and exercising died quickly of cancer at 67. To be fair if it were not for healthcare advances my uncle would have died a long time ago as he has had stents put in, different surgeries, takes tons of medications,etc.

As for the financial aspect of not planning for the senior years I have witnessed a similar equalization. I grew up with a friend whose family lived the high life. Beautiful homes, snazzy cars, lots of vacations and the best of everything. Things later went south financially but they had many great years. I watched another friend's super-frugal parents do the opposite. Always put any extra money back into their business, never vacationed, drove old cars into the ground all for planning for the future. Now both mothers are in the SAME rest home. One is private-pay (10k a month until assets are depleted) while the other is Medicaid paid (no assets left). When I think how they lived it does make me wonder who is the wise or foolish one. My friend, the daughter of the spenders, has many great memories of a fun childhood, while the other friend has none of that.
It is a lesson that the world isn't a fair one and that bad things happen to good people all the time, and vice versa...and pride goeth before a fall!

People usually have their reasons for doing things as they do, perhaps subconsciously. I see nothing wrong with kind-hearted advice but only once, unless asked for.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
45,030 posts, read 36,268,604 times
Reputation: 63734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern man View Post
Many years ago in some management school I attended, the one thing I remember is a handout the instructor gave us. " If someone comes into your office with a monkey sitting on his shoulder, biting his neck, make sure when he leaves, he takes the monkey with him".
If you give advice and it don't work, its going to be your fault.
LOL this is the phrase I learned and when I used it at work the first time, you should have seen the jaws drop!

"I do not accept the care and feeding of your monkey."
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,806 posts, read 4,854,199 times
Reputation: 19517
Quote:
Originally Posted by DropSomeTips View Post
Personally I wouldn't worry about it FOR them, if it was a priority they could try to do something on their own. Maybe they just don't have the money/desire. Who cares, no one is going to be retiring anymore in the country in any real sense except for a minute few percentage wise. This country is going towards policies that will lead to attrition of the old, poor, etc.. They will most likely die before they have to face the reality of 401K and all that other investment crap. Live now, there's likely nothing to look forward too being old and retired anyway. Besides losing your house (if you own one) to a nursing home.
Wow, I guess you don't know many retired folks. There are plenty of folks in the country who will be retiring and living long past their retirement dates, not a "minute few". All of that "investment crap", as you put it, provides a very good living for many people in this country. Who cares? Most of the people on this forum, which by the way is called the retirement forum. They are here to discuss all sorts of retirement issues, including giving and getting important financial advice on how to achieve successfully funded retirements. I'm retired, not particularly old, looked forward to retirement, and am now having some of the best times of my life.

Last edited by TheShadow; 01-06-2018 at 09:47 AM..
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:44 AM
 
130 posts, read 101,513 times
Reputation: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
We have been retired ten years having done so early. The husband and I would talk about we just disagreed and he would always say he wanted to see his kids enjoy his money. He stayed in debt and spent every penny who could. The wife liked to spend and we had the sense she had her shares of bills but there was limited financial conversations when the four of us were together. We had one conversation years ago while the four of us were in the car. He had gone out on disability and was collecting his pension early. We were not yet retired nor was she. She raised the point to my wife about the challenge after being retired with two pensions if one one of us passed. We immediately said we were doing spousal so they would continue. She asked her husband if that was what he had done. He said no and gave a reason. If looks and words could kill!

We knew she had spent most of her workplace savings prior to retirement. Her husband passed last year and she has shared things and is struggling having retired over a year ago. She has a pension and is now paycheck to paycheck she at one point shared what her savings were down to. She has a federal pension, thus no SS.

She was surprised we got three checks a month. She asked us about waiting a month for a check. We explained our schedule. She even said to my wife you are pay check to pay check also arenít you. My wife said no and nothing else. We had taken her out to lunch and told her as usual our treat. She asked whatís the limit we told her none.

She has no idea and her jaw would drop. She has visited us and seen both places and was probably making faulty assumptions.
Assuming she had surviverís benefit and hasnít notified the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) of her late husbandís death, she might be entitled to an increase in her monthly annuity. https://www.opm.gov/retirement-servi...ath-of-spouse/
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
5,514 posts, read 4,116,974 times
Reputation: 7323
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Say the bolded one time, then drop it.

Not your circus, not your monkeys. It's like people who point out to other people all the time "You've gained weight/you should eat more healthily/get more exercise/quit smoking/fill in the blank." They know what they should be doing but they're not doing it - and they're not even related to you and you won't be responsible for their care when they're older, so you really have no dog in this hunt and your comments are not likely to be constructive at all.

What are you hoping to accomplish, realistically?
The best response.
I had a really good friend that never saved. She even told me that money isn't the source of happiness many times (in other words shut up and stop bothering me)
Of course I told her having no money is a source for unhappiness.
Over the years this was brought up at least once a year.
We are both now 60. I'm in a pretty good place retired and relatively secure. She however has probably a zero net worth or maybe even negative. She is now worried about how she will live. Health care costs are scaring her.
Throughout the years we talked about having enough money to travel. Alas this will never happen for her.
The old saying about leading a horse to water . . . .
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:03 PM
 
29,809 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
Unfortunately does this mean you will have to help out your friends who neglected to save from time to time?

IRL, do you posters who have done well or sacrificed just keep on helping close family and friends who never thought about the future? Or do you just cut ties with those asking for handouts?
Even if you donít help cutting ties isnít necessary. You continue being friends with perhaps more generosity when giving gifts. Amazon gift cards are wonderful.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Fairfield, CT
5,848 posts, read 8,615,304 times
Reputation: 6286
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
It recently came up in conversations with a couple of people I know (I know them separately, I don't mean they are a couple) that neither of them is saving anything at all for retirement. Nada, zilch, zero. They are both around 50, working full time, career type jobs but for different reasons, neither is saving anything at all. They both rent, so they won't have the fall back of a paid off home to live in. One of them seems to have a small employer funded 401k, so that's at best a few percent of salary, the other one I know for sure doesn't contribute at all and there is no employer contribution, so they truly have absolutely nothing saved for retirement.

I know the best answer is to keep my mouth shut, but would you say anything at all, maybe point them to some really, really basic budgeting and saving information? If you would say anything, do you have an specific websites or books you'd suggest?

At this point, I'm thinking I wouldn't initiate a conversation but if the subject came up again, I might say something like "I have some resources I could suggest if you wanted to take a look". But then again, it might fall on deaf ears given that the answer to "what do you plan to live on in retirement" was basically a shrug.
I only have one or two friends that I am willing to discuss money with. I am pretty well off, and I think that raising such a topic with people who are not well off sometimes leads to a suggestion that you might help them in some way with their problem. So money is a topic I usually avoid. I also find it doesn't do any good to tell people these things. They have to work it out on their own.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:07 PM
 
29,809 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark bridge View Post
Assuming she had surviverís benefit and hasnít notified the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) of her late husbandís death, she might be entitled to an increase in her monthly annuity. https://www.opm.gov/retirement-servi...ath-of-spouse/
Different pension systems and he didnít take survivors. Their thinking was she could make it without him but he couldnít come close without her. He was in poor health so it was reasonable she would outlive him til she came down with cancer. She is cancer free but that was nearly a very scary outcome
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