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Old 01-07-2018, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,713 posts, read 36,132,256 times
Reputation: 63310

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
K.A. That is good, I'm just doing great with the alt protocols I use and avoid doctors offices as best I can. Just how I prefer it now for some 25 yrs.

I do use a good many supplements including powerful antioxidants.
I take some supplements myself. I think they have their place. I also think that modern medicine is amazing and has it's place too.

For the record, I'm not on any regular meds at all and I like it that way - I much prefer keeping things as natural as possible. But meds for high blood pressure (which runs in my husband's family - he's had high blood pressure literally his entire life) have saved his life and I'm very thankful for that.

Modern medicine has saved my life several times. But I've also had an adverse, life changing reaction to an antibiotic - which clearly did much more harm than good in my case. But this same antibiotic has saved many peoples' lives as well, so there you have it.

Everything in moderation and keep things as natural and uncomplicated as possible is the way I prefer to live.

And I am very thankful to live in a country with a high standard of living, in the 21st century. At the very least, I didn't have a one in five chance of dying in childbirth.

Just a heads' up by the way: My grandmother was the picture of health all her life. She HATED doctors and hated "preventive medicine" and avoided going to the doctor as much as possible. She led a very healthy lifestyle and never smoked, drank, etc.

She refused to go to the doctor for about two years when we were all begging her to go. Finally she could avoid it no longer.

The cancer had spread throughout her body and there was no hope for her. If she'd gone sooner, she would have almost certainly beat it. But it was too late.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:29 AM
 
7,979 posts, read 11,657,672 times
Reputation: 10473
Absolutely you can't argue that vaccines haven't saved millions from smallpox and polio etc.
But I refuse to be backed into an either or corner. I don't know why people can't discuss without being either/or. After having taking a bazillion vaccines with increasing skepticsm I still take some. But I also recognize that there are lots of problems. Either or people are just people who have to be right all the time and bully people to accept their superiority.

I suspect the "you must you must you must" crowd have never exerperienced a serious reaction and so, like flawed humans everywhere, think that people who have are crazy. People are always liars or crazy till it happens to you whether its vaccines or sexual assault or whatever.

There are still many problems with vaccines but since the CDC et al really really really want everyone to take all vaccines no question, there seems to be a dearth of good info. Of course that is as much because they don't know either as trying to limit info.
1) They don't want you to be informed and make a decision. They just want you to take it. From the CDC's perspective they don't care (I mean yes they do but in such a way as to change their recommendation) if people were to die from a vaccine as long as more people lived because of the vaccine. Like even if just a few more live, then everyone should take it despite the risks. But you know, I'm more concerned with myself then the those few survivors. Sorry, not a martyr.
And people's situations are different. You live in the middle of nowhere Great Plains are you going to be exposed to xyz? IDK. I know I'm not around that many people and I'm not around children so basically I'm not that exposed to a lot of things that others are.

2) They are always yammering about % rates like it is a known thing - till its not a known thing anymore. Because they don't know what they don't know but they never sound or admit that there is still stuff they don't know.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/this-ye...-experts-warn/
On average, past flu vaccines have been about 42 percent effective, though that number can range anywhere from 10 to 60 percent in a given year.

Less that 50%. So.....50 50?

Why the Vaccine May Not Help Against the Flu Virus This Year | Time
Ohhhh this is why the flu shot isn't as effective as we've been leading people to believe. Suddenly its not that flu vaccine isn't effective because they picked the wrong strains its because they grow the vaccine in eggs.
Serious credibility problems.

3) A lot of the times this hard and fast data with percentages of effectiveness etc. are based of very small studies. They aren't really that accurate. Not talking the flu shot here but other, vaccines, especially ones that havent been around forever like smallpox.

4) Its not like they do titer tests for a lot of these vaccines. I wish we could get our own titer tests. Many dog people are starting to get titer tests before revaccinating. Titers get low, then.

I want access to the data. How many studies, how big the studies were, what kind of studies, details on reactions and what they think caused those reactions.

I got a flu shot this year. But I feel kind of stupid for doing so. 10%

To bring this back to shingles. Yes, to this I know I'm very susceptible. I want to take a vaccine. One that works with low risk. Is 50% enough vs risk? IDK, not much data but 50 50 doesn't seem like an overwhelming. For the new vaccine, I'd like to see more data. In the end I will probably get it, at some point. But if I have a reaction, I'll be sorry won't I.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:32 AM
 
5,421 posts, read 2,336,948 times
Reputation: 15014
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I take some supplements myself. I think they have their place. I also think that modern medicine is amazing and has it's place too.

.
Common sense has no place here.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:45 AM
 
11,976 posts, read 5,111,061 times
Reputation: 18714
I read about a month ago that the flu vaccine this year may have an effective rate as low as 10 percent so I chose not to get it. So far so good.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Southern California
23,691 posts, read 8,235,451 times
Reputation: 15456
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I take some supplements myself. I think they have their place. I also think that modern medicine is amazing and has it's place too.

For the record, I'm not on any regular meds at all and I like it that way - I much prefer keeping things as natural as possible. But meds for high blood pressure (which runs in my husband's family - he's had high blood pressure literally his entire life) have saved his life and I'm very thankful for that.

Modern medicine has saved my life several times. But I've also had an adverse, life changing reaction to an antibiotic - which clearly did much more harm than good in my case. But this same antibiotic has saved many peoples' lives as well, so there you have it.

Everything in moderation and keep things as natural and uncomplicated as possible is the way I prefer to live.

And I am very thankful to live in a country with a high standard of living, in the 21st century. At the very least, I didn't have a one in five chance of dying in childbirth.

Just a heads' up by the way: My grandmother was the picture of health all her life. She HATED doctors and hated "preventive medicine" and avoided going to the doctor as much as possible. She led a very healthy lifestyle and never smoked, drank, etc.

She refused to go to the doctor for about two years when we were all begging her to go. Finally she could avoid it no longer.

The cancer had spread throughout her body and there was no hope for her. If she'd gone sooner, she would have almost certainly beat it. But it was too late.
It's almost hilarious how some believe because I don't go for pharma vaccines that something is wrong with me. What I do WORKS. Why pump vaccines into a body that does not need them? I keep a great homeopathic handy in case a flu feels like it wants to hit me and I zap it.

My parents were NOT running to doctor types and lived into 90's and yes had some issues in their last 10 some yrs, but overall pretty healthy stock, and foods were so much cleaner back in their days.

I'm not against doctors and see them when I need to. Often wish I had NOT done a hip replacement as it's left me with many complications 7 yrs later. If only a virtual hip replacement, and not all that invasive cutting of the body. Another topic.

Personally I prefer overall to support the supplement world as they have done so much for me, got me off allergy/sinus drugs back in 1995 and never to be on them again.

As I've said we all do what we do and that is just fine. I don't KNOCK those into all the pharma drugs. They are just NOT for me. jam
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Southern California
23,691 posts, read 8,235,451 times
Reputation: 15456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCNYC View Post
Common sense has no place here.
I think there is a LOT of Common Sense around here. Many many have good sense.

Different senses, but common for the individual. We are ALL unique in everything.

Last edited by jaminhealth; 01-08-2018 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:32 AM
 
Location: the Old Dominion
295 posts, read 149,075 times
Reputation: 1382
Default ...spread the word...

As stated earlier, there is more to this than a short post can cover. No, I did not mention the chicken pox. That was to be read through individual research.
OP, you are best served if you read up on this aside from what others have to say on this thread. As Southern Man intoned, shingles is very much to be avoided [with prevention]. I was lucky that the nurse and PA recognized it right away and we hoped the medicinal application was within the 72-hour window. Only a future outbreak would reveal if such were the case. Many months later, we were vindicated. My initial outbreak was very painful, though.
Do yourself a favour and read up on this. One of the best things anyone can do for himself/herself and his friends and acquaintances.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:10 AM
 
3,758 posts, read 10,634,955 times
Reputation: 6686
Just an FYI -

There's a new shingles vaccine (Shingrix) and it has been found to be much more effective than the previous vaccine.

Importantly, more effective for the truly elderly. Apparently the original vaccine (Zostravax (?)) had considerably reduced effectiveness for the elderly - which is already a vulnerable population.

One of many articles about new vaccine:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/w...effective.html
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:13 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,745 posts, read 7,027,781 times
Reputation: 14234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesela View Post
Absolutely you can't argue that vaccines haven't saved millions from smallpox and polio etc.
But I refuse to be backed into an either or corner. I don't know why people can't discuss without being either/or. After having taking a bazillion vaccines with increasing skepticsm I still take some. But I also recognize that there are lots of problems. Either or people are just people who have to be right all the time and bully people to accept their superiority.

I suspect the "you must you must you must" crowd have never exerperienced a serious reaction and so, like flawed humans everywhere, think that people who have are crazy. People are always liars or crazy till it happens to you whether its vaccines or sexual assault or whatever.

There are still many problems with vaccines but since the CDC et al really really really want everyone to take all vaccines no question, there seems to be a dearth of good info. Of course that is as much because they don't know either as trying to limit info.
1) They don't want you to be informed and make a decision. They just want you to take it. From the CDC's perspective they don't care (I mean yes they do but in such a way as to change their recommendation) if people were to die from a vaccine as long as more people lived because of the vaccine. Like even if just a few more live, then everyone should take it despite the risks. But you know, I'm more concerned with myself then the those few survivors. Sorry, not a martyr.
And people's situations are different. You live in the middle of nowhere Great Plains are you going to be exposed to xyz? IDK. I know I'm not around that many people and I'm not around children so basically I'm not that exposed to a lot of things that others are.

2) They are always yammering about % rates like it is a known thing - till its not a known thing anymore. Because they don't know what they don't know but they never sound or admit that there is still stuff they don't know.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/this-ye...-experts-warn/
On average, past flu vaccines have been about 42 percent effective, though that number can range anywhere from 10 to 60 percent in a given year.

Less that 50%. So.....50 50?

Why the Vaccine May Not Help Against the Flu Virus This Year | Time
Ohhhh this is why the flu shot isn't as effective as we've been leading people to believe. Suddenly its not that flu vaccine isn't effective because they picked the wrong strains its because they grow the vaccine in eggs.
Serious credibility problems.

3) A lot of the times this hard and fast data with percentages of effectiveness etc. are based of very small studies. They aren't really that accurate. Not talking the flu shot here but other, vaccines, especially ones that havent been around forever like smallpox.

4) Its not like they do titer tests for a lot of these vaccines. I wish we could get our own titer tests. Many dog people are starting to get titer tests before revaccinating. Titers get low, then.

I want access to the data. How many studies, how big the studies were, what kind of studies, details on reactions and what they think caused those reactions.

I got a flu shot this year. But I feel kind of stupid for doing so. 10%

To bring this back to shingles. Yes, to this I know I'm very susceptible. I want to take a vaccine. One that works with low risk. Is 50% enough vs risk? IDK, not much data but 50 50 doesn't seem like an overwhelming. For the new vaccine, I'd like to see more data. In the end I will probably get it, at some point. But if I have a reaction, I'll be sorry won't I.
Well, I guess it's a good thing you have a choice.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:59 AM
 
6,354 posts, read 3,575,892 times
Reputation: 7272
Up until 5 years ago I had never known anyone who had shingles, including all my older relatives. Then my husband got it despite getting the vaccination. Then a couple of years later my 32 year old SIL got it. My daughter's friend got it at 34. A few months ago my older daughter got shingles all over her face and neck at 38 years old. Not SENIORS but young adults. Since the CDC has lowered the age to 50 for vaccination, maybe they need to recommend the vax to everyone regardless of age who has had chicken pox. Hey, at the very least, you can always get another vaccination every 10 years. Why not? Can never have too many vaccinations. Cradle to Grave. The manufacturer would just love that to increase sales.

Pain? Anti-Virals? Both my husband and SIL went to work for a week before going to the doctor. My daughter went immediately but she could not throw on a shirt over her face to go to work. All of these people said it ITCHED.

Jamin, my daughter said she would rather have the "pain" of shingles in comparison to the pain of her failed back surgery. I do agree with you about the stress factor; husband's multiple surgeries, SIL's colicky newborn, friend's wedding, and my daughter's move to new home and new job at same time. Stress, and not getting "natural" chicken pox boosters.
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