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How is that? It doesn't affect me, but I am curious.
This is an issues that has been covered by numerous articles in the Wall Street Journal and many financial planning and accounting journals.
It goes like this. Couple live in the State of New York and owns a significant property there. They retire and decide to make Florida their new home. They purchase a residence in Florida and reside there for eight months a year but come back to NY for the summer and holidays. They file their federal return and claim that their primary residence is their Florida residence.
New York notices that these long-term residents did not file a state return and send them one of those deficiency letters stating that they owe money as they are residents of New York. After all, they still own a residence. They probably never registered to vote in Florida. They may not have titled their vehicle in Florida. They routinely come to New York and they still hold a lot of their assets in New York. The state will argue that are state residents. Of course, that will eventually head to court. If the taxpayer wins, he pays little tax in New York BUT has to pay all of the legal costs. If the taxpayer loses, he is writing a large check to the state of New York.
When I moved to Arizona, I went to the Department of Revenue site and downloaded the article of the definition of a state resident. That was my checklist to ensure that I met EVERY requirement as of a certain date (10-15-14). In addition, I looked at every asset to make sure that nothing was left in Illinois.
Trying to work through some budgeting forecasts for retirement in 3-5 years. We are thinking we will be snowbirds for the winter (4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks, more?) but not sure how much to budget for it. We are in the midwest and would likely go south from here (South Carolina and south of SC) or Arizona.
I would be interested in hearing about your snowbird experience. Where do you go, how long do you stay, and what is the approximate cost? How difficult is it to find rentals of 4 weeks - 12 weeks? Do you go the same place every year or do you like to move around?
Hubby is concerned about being able to afford this lifestyle and I am hoping to show him that it can be done depending on where you go.
A good friend retired this past September and her husband had already been retired for several years on disability. They owned a mortgage free home and inherited her husband's mother's mortgage free home when she went to live with her eldest son. The sold their home and with part of the proceeds renovated the inherited home and moved into it and purchased a snowbird condo in cash for $85,000 in Century Village in West Palm Beach where my friend's father and his GF have permanently lived for a number of years.
They have a great situation because her never married 40 year old son moved in with them in R.I., and he will take care of that home during the winter and pay all the expenses during that time they will be in Florida. Without a mortgage her condo's HOA fee is rather high close to $500/month because this community has many amenities and that fee includes cable, but with her condo being rather small her other utilities and home owner's insurance is not very costly. Last I talked with her she figures from soup to nuts meaning condo costs along with food, entertainment, etc. costs her $3,000/month during the 6 winter months they will live there, and about $700/month the 6 months they are back in R.I. She will not rent the condo out primarily because with her father living there he will take care of the condo during that time which is 2 units over from his.
Although it has only been 4 months doing this both seem very happy with the set up. And to have her father there being a long time resident she was able to get his doctor to take her on as a patient when snowbirding, and with her husband being a Vet the West Palm VA is a short ride from their condo and that is where his goes if he needs to see a doctor. It really helps when you have a family member or close friend already living in the community you are considering being a snowbird owner or long term renter because they can show you the ropes with health care, repair people, where to shop, get your hair done, etc. which may take several years for those things to fall into place for those without that. Honestly, if my friend did not have the perfect set up that she does I don't think she would have purchased the condo, and maybe just rented for a few months somewhere each winter or just taken a long warm winter vacation instead.
You may have the funds to swing being a winter snowbird, but as others have said it is the maintaining of the home you are not living in for the extended time you will be away from it that can throw a monkey wrench into your plans as it would be for me because I would not rent either home and have nobody trustworthy that could maintain either home when I was away. And that being said, my friend said that if the situation would change where her son moved out or her father passes away they would likely relocate permanently to the condo because when either she or her husband passes the condo will be a more affordable living option for the surviving spouse compared to their R.I. home, and with her community having bus transportation to healthcare facilities and stores, and other senior services that would make it a much easier place for the surviving spouse to live while they are still fairly independent but no longer drive.
Yes, you can live in a comfortable way with all the amenities as a westerner is used to, here in a foreign land. And you can live here much more cheaply than anywhere in the US, just what level are you willing to accept. I found my decent level at about $1500 and that is my meaning of decent, it may not be yours. Some people consider squatting at a homeless shelter decent and that's fine with me also.
Not buying it.
It's funny to me you define "decent" as a dollar figure - you didn't provide any info on what YOU consider decent LIVING. I'm talking about decent LIVING. But then you jump to anything below $1500 in America as homeless shelter living.
I said there must be a reason that you chose your foreign land other than economics. Women? Cheap labor? "Hobbies"? Some type of business? Ex Military and you're comfortable there? Enjoy dog meat dinners? Medical care because you have a terminal illness or plastic surgery addiction (LOL)?
BTW, I've lived in a foreign land and you couldn't pay me enough to do it again. Vacationed for months at a time for many years - then finally "moved". It's NEVER the same when you "permanently relocate". And I even speak the language and had native family there, too. And it was an EU country, not some more far east version. Starting with the substandard toilet paper and having to put a penny under the fuse in the fusebox to make the water heat up. Thank God we could shop at the military base for American products because the stores had half Soviet Union crap and less than half random American. BTW my family members are doctors and professors at the major University and they come HERE for any serious issues they many have. You want a car there? Great, you pay for a Russian car or perhaps Italian if you have money but if you import one from the US you pay a $20,000 import tax. Even an old used car.
When I was there with my baby he got bronchitis. My cousin, a renown pediatrician and university professor prescribed Garamycin. I had a PDR with me and panicked. Called my pediatrician in the US who asked me: "Runs, is he dying? We only prescribe that IV for the most serious cases".
We went with something we got at the US base, instead.
Your choices here are not $1500 per month or squatting in a homeless shelter for less.
Just for starters there is an abundance of housing here where you pay 30% of what your income is. The minimum payment is $25.00. Seniors can live very comfortably for say, $325 per month rent including utilities. And many of those properties are for "frail" seniors with supportive services on site. We even have them in my wealthy FL county and we have a FREE bus transit system. AND tons of community health care services.
So let's not exaggerate, okay?
It's okay if you don't want to reveal why you made that choice. It's a rare American who can culturally assimilate in foreign countries, especially the far East.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 01-18-2018 at 08:23 AM..
Work you might do yourself will have to be done by paid services when you are not in town. You will also have some year round utility costs. Maybe renting will be better.
This topic is how I found cd. Thanks to the OP and all who have contributed to this thread. I have been thinking about how to make this work as well. People with rentals would love to have me as their client. I am bit OC. Let's put it this way: Your place would be cleaner and more organized after I had been there than before. That being said, I don’t know if I could stand neighbors like the ones described above. The place would have to be in excellent order. It bothers me to think that I wouldn’t be able to have all my “stuff” when or if I needed it. If one acquires new stuff what do you do with it when it is time to return home? The only reason I wouldn’t buy is because of the cost and hassle of owning two homes far from one another. My wife also doesn’t want to be stuck in one place. She wants to try numerous areas, perhaps even in Europe or elsewhere. An RV doesn’t appeal to me. But one thing I do know: I do not want to be here Jan-March anymore.
Yeah, I took a job with my old company 3 hours away shortly after buying my unit. I put it back on the market because I was afraid to rent if I couldn't find a tenant like you. And I didn't think I had the fortitude to put up with the challenge. Then I took it off and it sat empty for four years. It was 2009 and the rental markets were a mess, anyway. You didn't know WHO you would get and the R.E. agents I met here were untrustworthy and all MAD about the crash.
Despite my snark about my snowbird neighbors, they're okay. They picked up their units cheap when the real estate market crashed, so they're on the very young side of the 55+ age restriction. We were happy they bought here. Vacancies are bad.
But you have to be vocal about what's expected. You can't be sitting out there calling a political voter demographic names when you don't know who is living next door and they can hear you, for example. Me, being from Philly, I have no problem with mouthing off and/or finessing their behaviors but YMMV.
The HOA is fair and says each atrium is expected to work out the details of how much furniture etc with a couple of safety related bylaws notwithstanding.
You would actually LOVE being a snowbird or a permanent resident in my HOA. It's beautiful, peaceful, perfectly maintained, organized and very close to a gorgeous beach central area. We prohibit high rises, unlike further South FL where they dominate the ocean drive. Some of those properties you never get direct sun in your house because of the shadow from the high rises! (actually where I spent most of my time growing up...Palm Beach, Broward, Martin, and Dade counties)...We're 15 minutes away in traffic. Affordable, too.
This morning it is in the 30's but you only need a casual jacket. Then by noon it's going to be hot enough you'll be wearing shorts and a tee shirt. Especially if you're a Northerner LOL. Some long term FLoridians are running around in boots and winter coats and I'm cracking up. Indian River County is on the Atlantic half way down the center of FL and I'd say you can still swim all the time anywhere between here and more South FL all winter. Not ALL the time but I remember vacationing here before living here and it was a 50-50 chance of "hot" weather for swimming versus just nice and warm compared to Philly but too breezy. We have two pools and one is heated all year round. We have pool aerobics every day for an hour so yeah, people ARE swimming. Even the 85 year olds attend LOL.
Always rent somewhere before choosing to buy if we're talking Florida (or anywhere, for that matter). Whether it be for a few months at a time or a year. We just won a huge political battle with the state which wants to allow SUPER SHORT TERM rentals EVERYWHERE! Like ONE NIGHT! NO! You are not destroying our property values and lives so you can increase your tax coffers.
My mother had a snowbird condo for a couple decades. She kept her Florida clothing here, only traveled with one suitcase of small stuff more like a carry-on. My father had his "condo tools" here and never went missing his Northern "stuff".
Besides, when you rent seasonally, all your stuff is provided by the owner. Anything important you call the property manager or owner ie...changing the smoke alarm battery on the 13 foot ceiling without the proper ladder or not being physically able to do it.
You MAIL your "stuff" back and forth if you're buying things for the opposite place.
You have nothing to lose by trying it. Some HOAs like mine have restrictions on short term, though. I think our bylaws state only minimum 6 month contracts.
OH, and we have a lot of consignment and cheap stuff like in Goodwill and other charitable outlets here in Florida. Both of my neighbors furnished their places on a very cheap budget. Because we have a lot of churn. I even donated some perfectly new and not cheap furniture to Habit for Humanity store just recently.
You'll want to shop at the ones in the best neighborhoods, not the ones contiguous to some lower economic neighborhoods, generally speaking. While they both pick up donations all over the county, the reverse is true: people drop their stuff off at the closest one. So go to all of them but you'll probably have the most success at the ones that you project might have wealthier people donating to.
Go early and go often. I head that employees take the good stuff for themselves. Not the drivers stealing or anything - you give a list of inventory - the office workers call dibs on the good stuff.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 01-18-2018 at 07:53 AM..
That is a problem you wouldn't foresee unless you've lived it but certainly something to consider. We have a seasonal property on northeast coast but don't want to give it up but plan to sell our year around home and find another home in a warm climate for the winter months. November to April. It's true, steady consistent relationships could be a problem.
Anyone try living in a park model RV or a mobile home in the place you get away to? How did that work out for you? I am aware that these types of structures depreciate, as opposed to most houses, condos, etc.
That is a problem you wouldn't foresee unless you've lived it but certainly something to consider. We have a seasonal property on northeast coast but don't want to give it up but plan to sell our year around home and find another home in a warm climate for the winter months. November to April. It's true, steady consistent relationships could be a problem.
I know a TON of people here in Indian River County FL who all have homes in Maine. I never really met so many Maine people living in other states as here. They head north exactly around May 1st!
There must be something about this county that New Englanders like LOL. We DO have an abundance of boating and fishing. Even the most modest homes have a boat in the yard. You can go to Sebastian any morning and pick your fresh fish right out of a bucket coming off the small fishermen' boats and have it cleaned right there by the fish monger if you want.
We also have the first US National Wildlife Refuge, Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge and other stuff like that.
The lady running our historic society tells about nobody inhabiting the barrier island decades ago and they thought you were weird if you wanted to. Buggy, animals, etc. And they used to take boats every morning to get to school.
Trying to work through some budgeting forecasts for retirement in 3-5 years. We are thinking we will be snowbirds for the winter (4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks, more?) but not sure how much to budget for it. We are in the midwest and would likely go south from here (South Carolina and south of SC) or Arizona.
I would be interested in hearing about your snowbird experience. Where do you go, how long do you stay, and what is the approximate cost? How difficult is it to find rentals of 4 weeks - 12 weeks? Do you go the same place every year or do you like to move around?
Hubby is concerned about being able to afford this lifestyle and I am hoping to show him that it can be done depending on where you go.
Up North
1. Taxes up North don't diminish
2. Heating concerns
3. Security concerns at empty house
4. Travel expenses.
5. Minimum electric bills.
Down South
1. All of the above expenses
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