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Old 02-01-2018, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,661,739 times
Reputation: 35449

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfox2 View Post
Here you go. Someone like you is beholden to whatever doctors say in order to stay alive. You have an agenda.

By the way, I didnít do a study. Who would fund it? Studies are only funded by drug companies to make big money selling products that cost pennies for 100ís of dollars to people like you and me.

The study is me. I have fibromyalgia, chronic pelvic pain syndrome, chronic GERD, sciatica, and chronic Lyme Disease. I went to doctors and their ďstudiesĒ for all of these things, and found no relief. I had to research it myself. I discovered a doctor who recommended a safe and functional solution. Chronic PP? No doctor would even identify it for me. I found a solution in a food and an herb and some vitamins. GERD? No doctor study solution worked for me. I finally in desperation became a Vegan(which has had other benefits), because now I donít ingest anything that causes my digestive system to produce acid. Doctors tell me thatís dumb, and that there are no studies to show this(Yeah----a drug company that markets Nexium is going to tell you you donít need that). The CDC claims Chronic Lyme doesnít exist. Again I have had to go to herbal cures to find a solution.

Pardon me if I donít appreciate all the good doctors who try so hard but have no solutions based on drug company trials to help me.

You have a science based Linear view of the world. Unfortunately the real world is a complex, chaotic system. There is really no Linearity. Everything interacts with everything else to cause things to happen. YOU will never solve you problems either yourself or by doctors who are looking for a science study based silver bullet. It doesn't exist, even if you want it to.

A vegan diet maintained consistently over a period of years, increases the immune system. However, if you already have a destroyed immune system(like taking antibiotics for years for Lyme disease) then being a vegan for a few months will not help you. The flu is most affected by the impact of the immune system, and the ability of the system not to go into overload, like it can with Lyme. Its much more complex than you think it is. Most doctor know nothing about this, and simple prescribe what the drug companies tell them to.
And you my friend know nothing about my condition but assume you do. My situation is not the same as yours.

You also have no idea of treatments and practitioners I have gone to over the years. You are too lost in your own agenda, too smug listening to your own proselytizing to even bother to listen to anyone else.

Immune overload has been explained over and over again on various TV news and public service broadcasts. I donít know why you are saying most doctors donít understand this. Youíre not on to anything mysterious.

Your study is you. Thatís fine. Mine is me. But Iím not pushing my experience on others. Over the years I have taken advice from multiple sources and those are educated sources who have educated themselves in their professions from Natropaths to herbalists to dieticians to MDs. I like to seek out those who have expertise in their various fields. I have also done a lot of reading about health and diet from many points of view on my own. I have a feeling I have taken a much more broad minded approach than you have. You seem very singled minded focused only on one solution to a very complex problem.

So why should I now suddenly just start taking advice from just one self-appointed Internet ďexpertĒ on the subject?
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,439 posts, read 2,762,134 times
Reputation: 16362
That's like the dog training classes I would attend. People who were in the beginning class with their dogs (there because I assume they had no idea how to control their dog in the first place) would constantly argue with the trainer and do everything "their way". I always wondered why people would pay to go to an expert and then refuse to do or listen to whatever he/she said. But I see that all the time. I swear, sometimes I think people would get up out of their seat and try to fly the plane themselves, because they think they know more than the pilot because of something Uncle Joe told them.
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Old 02-01-2018, 02:01 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,937 posts, read 2,281,106 times
Reputation: 16626
Now; I think that this has actually been an amazing thread because of all the different posters who have offered their experiences & sometimes recipes for herbs & supplements.

The positives & negative experiences with Pharmaceuticals. Getting rest. Self-isolating. Valuable insights on symptoms.

The obvious observance of all this is that every person is going to be different, feel different & respond differently to almost everything out there. You have to be your own best advocate & you have to pay attention to your body.

I think the worst possible thing anyone can do is to minimize or discount somebody else's experience & to do it in a manner that suggests that what they felt or saw happen: Didn't happen.

That, to me; is dangerous. You may not have somebody's metabolism or immune system & maybe "X+Y" did NOT equal "Z" for you ... but what if your spouse added "X+Y" & it does start to look like "Z"?

Would you want the doctor to scoff at you & say "That's impossible! It never equals Z!"

I realize this is a popular forum & that there is potential for misinformation to be spread but personally speaking; when I hear somebody say "I got the flu from the vaccine" ... I am hearing: "I got sick after the vaccine".

I already know that they likely did not contract the actual flu from the flu vaccine but I also know that if the immune system does not recognize an antigen as a flu antigen; it won't provide immunity towards the flu. There is a fine line between educating someone on the science of it & alienating someone from all modern medicine by telling them that they did not feel how they felt or see what they saw.

But anyway; hearing what helped other people is so valuable to me. You can search the CDC website for an hour & will not see one mention of Vitamin D or Vitamin C. Then you enter PubMed & you see tons of published research that supports different vitamins & supplements.

That bothers me. Yes; I realize there are exceptions to every rule. Such as those with Hemochromatosis, who should actually avoid supplementing with vitamin C. Okay, but obviously not everybody can take Tamiflu either.

On the upside; it's not like a hot cup of Chamomile tea with a little bit of honey in it will make a situation any worse!
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:25 PM
 
193 posts, read 117,576 times
Reputation: 231
From my 66 years of anecdotal experience, I grew up in an era where there were few vaccines . Polio and Smallpox was still a serious threat and vaccines for those diseases were required for everyone. No one gets vaccinated for these diseases anymore because they were eliminated by........universal vaccinations!

I don't care what type of food you eat or supplements you take, or if you have a great immune system, if you are exposed to Small Pox you will likely die a horrible death.

As a child, I caught mumps, measles, German measles, Pertussis (whooping cough, and that almost killed me) , chicken pox , several cases of flu, bronchitis, and walking pneumonia. I did not get Polio or Small Pox, thanks to vaccinations.

Did it ever occur to anyone, that this anti-vaccine movement is being funded by the pharmaceutical industry? Think it through. Vaccines are effective and prevent disease, but they are usually only given once or twice in a lifetime. There is no real money in it . Much preferred would be a drug which would require a monthly or even daily dose. A yearly dose of a flu vaccine really doesn't scream excitement to the drug companies.

It's better for the companies bottom line if they can stop making vaccines and produce more profitable drugs.

That's my opinion and thoughts on the matter.
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Old 02-02-2018, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,408 posts, read 28,257,722 times
Reputation: 28985
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
Now; I think that this has actually been an amazing thread because of all the different posters who have offered their experiences & sometimes recipes for herbs & supplements.

The positives & negative experiences with Pharmaceuticals. Getting rest. Self-isolating. Valuable insights on symptoms.

The obvious observance of all this is that every person is going to be different, feel different & respond differently to almost everything out there. You have to be your own best advocate & you have to pay attention to your body.

I think the worst possible thing anyone can do is to minimize or discount somebody else's experience & to do it in a manner that suggests that what they felt or saw happen: Didn't happen.

That, to me; is dangerous. You may not have somebody's metabolism or immune system & maybe "X+Y" did NOT equal "Z" for you ... but what if your spouse added "X+Y" & it does start to look like "Z"?

Would you want the doctor to scoff at you & say "That's impossible! It never equals Z!"

I realize this is a popular forum & that there is potential for misinformation to be spread but personally speaking; when I hear somebody say "I got the flu from the vaccine" ... I am hearing: "I got sick after the vaccine".

I already know that they likely did not contract the actual flu from the flu vaccine but I also know that if the immune system does not recognize an antigen as a flu antigen; it won't provide immunity towards the flu. There is a fine line between educating someone on the science of it & alienating someone from all modern medicine by telling them that they did not feel how they felt or see what they saw.

But anyway; hearing what helped other people is so valuable to me. You can search the CDC website for an hour & will not see one mention of Vitamin D or Vitamin C. Then you enter PubMed & you see tons of published research that supports different vitamins & supplements.

That bothers me. Yes; I realize there are exceptions to every rule. Such as those with Hemochromatosis, who should actually avoid supplementing with vitamin C. Okay, but obviously not everybody can take Tamiflu either.

On the upside; it's not like a hot cup of Chamomile tea with a little bit of honey in it will make a situation any worse!
Well, the immune system just recognizes foreign antigens. It really does not care what organism the antigen came from. However, the antigen in the flu vaccine does have to match one in the wild virus, though the match may not need to be perfect. The vaccine may protect against some strains that are closely related to those in the vaccine but not identical.

Vitamin D may help if you are deficient; not so much if you aren't.

Large doses of vitamin C are mostly eliminated in the urine.
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Old 02-02-2018, 01:01 PM
 
Location: PNW
2,474 posts, read 904,415 times
Reputation: 8312
WOW, Minervah! I've just gotten over 1-1/2 weeks of the flu, myself, and am still not 100% "back". Merlin had it first and his symptoms were more severe but he recovered quicker. I had a stubborn fever that wouldn't stay down, and very weak. It took a lot out of us.

I did get the flu shot, as I have every year since1987. Didn't stop me from getting this strain but maybe it kept it from getting worse. I've had the flu 3 or 4 times in 30 years, so I guess I can't complain.

We just can't be too careful but life has to go on. Merlin has no idea where he got it from ~ could have been from a customer, or even standing behind a sick person in line somewhere. I'm always paranoid of this crap whenever I'm in public transit. I admire people who brave wearing masks out 'n' about.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,543,470 times
Reputation: 16771
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG120 View Post
Sorry you got sick, but you CANNOT get the flu from the vaccine. If you got sick after the vaccine, you either were already sick or got a strain that the vaccine didn't effect.

If you don't believe me, would you believe the CDC, The Mayo Clinic, Johns' Hopkins and every other medical expert around the world? The vaccine is dead, which causes your body to build immunity but cannot give you the flu.
Thing is, due to multiple surgeries, I'm effected by medications and vaccines in unknown ways. My absorbtion of a shots payroll is random. Maybe I didn't get the flu from the flu shot, but it was pretty close. I was lucky the worse possible symptom was mild, but got sickest from that. So I'm very very careful.

The general rules on how one's body handles foreign substances is random. It's made me very very cautious. I look up pills for the smallest side effects because they often happen.

I'm in a position where I can batton down the door and order stuff. It was what I did last bad flu and I didn't get it even having to actually go to the store. Now I don't have to.

I had what turned out to be the systemic form of colitus and it does a lot of damage to your processing of foods and drugs and leaves behind unpredictable problems, so I have been doing this for some time. I had a form which is progressive in damage instead of random, so any medication or pill is handled with suspicision until I can find all and I do mean ALL side effects. The biggest problems can be what would be mild side effects for some but not for me. I choose to not take that chance. Before that, I wasn't overly effected by flu but its different now.
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Old 02-02-2018, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,661,739 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckystrike1 View Post
WOW, Minervah! I've just gotten over 1-1/2 weeks of the flu, myself, and am still not 100% "back". Merlin had it first and his symptoms were more severe but he recovered quicker. I had a stubborn fever that wouldn't stay down, and very weak. It took a lot out of us.

I did get the flu shot, as I have every year since1987. Didn't stop me from getting this strain but maybe it kept it from getting worse. I've had the flu 3 or 4 times in 30 years, so I guess I can't complain.

We just can't be too careful but life has to go on. Merlin has no idea where he got it from ~ could have been from a customer, or even standing behind a sick person in line somewhere. I'm always paranoid of this crap whenever I'm in public transit. I admire people who brave wearing masks out 'n' about.
Sorry you two got it, glad youíre feeling a bit better. This thing is airborne as well as surface spread so itís no wonder itís spread so rapidly. And there are various strains too. I wore a mask for awhike after I got out of the hospital but then I pretty much stopped. I just hope Iím done for good. Rest up. Probably the best you can do.
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Old 02-02-2018, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,543,470 times
Reputation: 16771
Quote:
Originally Posted by arabus View Post
From my 66 years of anecdotal experience, I grew up in an era where there were few vaccines . Polio and Smallpox was still a serious threat and vaccines for those diseases were required for everyone. No one gets vaccinated for these diseases anymore because they were eliminated by........universal vaccinations!

I don't care what type of food you eat or supplements you take, or if you have a great immune system, if you are exposed to Small Pox you will likely die a horrible death.

As a child, I caught mumps, measles, German measles, Pertussis (whooping cough, and that almost killed me) , chicken pox , several cases of flu, bronchitis, and walking pneumonia. I did not get Polio or Small Pox, thanks to vaccinations.

Did it ever occur to anyone, that this anti-vaccine movement is being funded by the pharmaceutical industry? Think it through. Vaccines are effective and prevent disease, but they are usually only given once or twice in a lifetime. There is no real money in it . Much preferred would be a drug which would require a monthly or even daily dose. A yearly dose of a flu vaccine really doesn't scream excitement to the drug companies.

It's better for the companies bottom line if they can stop making vaccines and produce more profitable drugs.

That's my opinion and thoughts on the matter.
I had mumps, measles, German measles, but never chicken pox. There wasn't any prevention for it and I was exposed plenty of times. When they came up with a vaccine, I didn't get it since I'd been exposed so much I should have built an immunity.

As someone who doesn't want the vaccine IN CASE it effect me badly, and don't need to be with people, and already know my body chemistry is altered by a bunch of lost organs and such, I don't want to see if the vaccine hits one of those buttons. I've been avoiding flu and flu shouts for years.

We are all individuals and if you are normal, and the shot may give you an edge, fine. But when I say I am safer avoiding the shot over taking it I'm talking about ME, and my specifice and regretable condition. But anyone with auto immune diesease should be careful. The idea of how the shot works is by stimulating the immune system. But if it doesn't work right, either it gives you nothing or worse, it might instead cause the body's immune system to make you sick. Maybe the reaction isn't exactly flu, but if you are really sick it does NOT matter.

If you happen to be one of those people, then you shouldn't be shamed and denounced because I'll bet most doctors will never tell a patient, especially a new one, that the shot may be a bad idea and why.
Most doctors are not used to asking further questions asked by patients about things like unusual body states and the cautions which go with them. So the patient HAS to bring them up and explain and expect the doctor to respect their advise.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:10 AM
 
193 posts, read 117,576 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
I had mumps, measles, German measles, but never chicken pox. There wasn't any prevention for it and I was exposed plenty of times. When they came up with a vaccine, I didn't get it since I'd been exposed so much I should have built an immunity.

As someone who doesn't want the vaccine IN CASE it effect me badly, and don't need to be with people, and already know my body chemistry is altered by a bunch of lost organs and such, I don't want to see if the vaccine hits one of those buttons. I've been avoiding flu and flu shouts for years.

We are all individuals and if you are normal, and the shot may give you an edge, fine. But when I say I am safer avoiding the shot over taking it I'm talking about ME, and my specifice and regretable condition. But anyone with auto immune diesease should be careful. The idea of how the shot works is by stimulating the immune system. But if it doesn't work right, either it gives you nothing or worse, it might instead cause the body's immune system to make you sick. Maybe the reaction isn't exactly flu, but if you are really sick it does NOT matter.

If you happen to be one of those people, then you shouldn't be shamed and denounced because I'll bet most doctors will never tell a patient, especially a new one, that the shot may be a bad idea and why.
Most doctors are not used to asking further questions asked by patients about things like unusual body states and the cautions which go with them. So the patient HAS to bring them up and explain and expect the doctor to respect their advise.
I understand your situation and sympathize. I have a condition known as Polymyalgia Rheumatica or PMR for short. It is an Auto-immune disease that requires I take steroids to reduce inflammation. The steroids compromise my immune system. I took the flu shot on the advice of my doctor who is aware of my condition. She explained to me that the flu shot uses dead virus and cannot infect you with the flu. I read the paperwork included with the shot. The shot caused no issues for me. I note that some people will have a reaction to the shot, for various reasons.
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