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Old 05-16-2018, 07:28 AM
 
698 posts, read 209,225 times
Reputation: 1338

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryinva View Post
Whether “big pharma” makes money of not (and there are plenty of dead ends, denied approvals, etc that all cost money) is irrelevant. You infer that because anyone makes money on something, then it must be bad. Are the supplements free? Inexpensive?? I GUARANTEE the cost of a lifetime of supplements (making payments to “big supp”??) FAR exceeds what anyone has paid for vaccines! So stop the diatribe about “big pharma”; it makes zero sense, and comes across as infantile.

Nothing cited about vaccines here is “so called science”. It is all just plain real science. Just like there is real science behind the effectiveness of many supplements. The only “so called science” is inferring that because you personally have not experienced something, means it is because of a supplement you take. That is anecdotal at best, misleading at worst.
Interesting that anyone who goes against the mentality of vaccine protection is called “infantile”. No pharma is going to offer the vaccine if they dont make money on it.
Even the vets that take care of my dogs and horses believe we are overvaccinating our animals. That many of the vaccines are unnecessary and are leading to sicker animals and causing more servere reactions. Its just not our animals, we are overvaccinating ourselves too.

 
Old 05-16-2018, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,250 posts, read 8,572,788 times
Reputation: 35701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
I dont use any supplements except vit c and im in my 70s. Just lots of outdoor exercise and a good diet, has stood me in good stead. And as I said before I know of no one, friends and relatives who have had shingles. It is not as common as many of you want to believe.
Lots of things aren't common but we "insure" against them - you know, things like flood insurance and house fires. Again, if you think the risk is small enough or the consequences so minor then DON'T GET THE VACCINE. I'm checking into getting it at my next checkup in July.
 
Old 05-16-2018, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Southern California
23,877 posts, read 8,337,569 times
Reputation: 15554
Reading this morning's entries, so many are just so against supplements to stave off dis-ease and that would mean shingles as I see it. Supplements have done good for me for some 25+ yrs and yes I'd rather take more natural herbals than lab produced drugs. This is just what I want for me and my body and healing. FOOD BASED medicine.

I don't know if anyone read the last link I posted but the author talked about how important B12 is to keep shingles from their bodies. How many are up on their B12? I've been taking B12 for years and take my dose every day.

And yes both industries make their money, no one is doing this all for free. But by billions pharma is way ahead of the profits.

I'm certainly not against pharma drugs as one could save my life some day, I don't know what is ahead for me. I know the past put me in the ER with a drug interaction from a pharma drug...and a loved one was on life support due to drug interactions.

So why do I believe as I do for healing.....and prevention.

I really don't care what vaccines people take, I just don't want or need them for me.
 
Old 05-16-2018, 10:31 AM
 
Location: planet earth
4,884 posts, read 1,870,779 times
Reputation: 10913
I think my "objection" is mainly in the lack of deep thinking of people who wantonly pop pills and do whatever the latest ads tell them to do. It's the mindlessness and putting their well-being in the hands of "daddy" (big pharma) that I find upsetting (because I don't like living in a society with so many unaware and basically "stupid" people (not talking about anyone specific here) - I'm selfish like that).
 
Old 05-16-2018, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Southern California
23,877 posts, read 8,337,569 times
Reputation: 15554
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
I think my "objection" is mainly in the lack of deep thinking of people who wantonly pop pills and do whatever the latest ads tell them to do. It's the mindlessness and putting their well-being in the hands of "daddy" (big pharma) that I find upsetting (because I don't like living in a society with so many unaware and basically "stupid" people (not talking about anyone specific here) - I'm selfish like that).
Most I'd say don't think this way, I sure do. If I listened to them I'd be at the doctors every week. Nope... My doctors come to me usually monthly in a nice cardboard box.
 
Old 05-16-2018, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,462 posts, read 28,348,352 times
Reputation: 29085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
I dont use any supplements except vit c and im in my 70s. Just lots of outdoor exercise and a good diet, has stood me in good stead. And as I said before I know of no one, friends and relatives who have had shingles. It is not as common as many of you want to believe.
How common shingles is is determined by counting the number of cases. It is simple arithmetic. You are deluding yourself by trying to pretend it is not common.

The next time you are in a large room of people who are mostly over the age of 50, take a poll and see how many have had it. Just because you do not know a friend or relative has had shingles does not mean that friend or relative has not had it.

If you want anecdotes, my mother, one son, husband, and husband's sister have had it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Reading this morning's entries, so many are just so against supplements to stave off dis-ease and that would mean shingles as I see it. Supplements have done good for me for some 25+ yrs and yes I'd rather take more natural herbals than lab produced drugs. This is just what I want for me and my body and healing. FOOD BASED medicine.

I don't know if anyone read the last link I posted but the author talked about how important B12 is to keep shingles from their bodies. How many are up on their B12? I've been taking B12 for years and take my dose every day.

And yes both industries make their money, no one is doing this all for free. But by billions pharma is way ahead of the profits.

I'm certainly not against pharma drugs as one could save my life some day, I don't know what is ahead for me. I know the past put me in the ER with a drug interaction from a pharma drug...and a loved one was on life support due to drug interactions.

So why do I believe as I do for healing.....and prevention.

I really don't care what vaccines people take, I just don't want or need them for me.
If you are not deficient in B12 you do not need to take it. A simple blood test can tell you whether you need it or not.

It is fine for you to reject vaccines and believe your supps will protect you from shingles. There is no evidence that any supplement will prevent shingles, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
I think my "objection" is mainly in the lack of deep thinking of people who wantonly pop pills and do whatever the latest ads tell them to do. It's the mindlessness and putting their well-being in the hands of "daddy" (big pharma) that I find upsetting (because I don't like living in a society with so many unaware and basically "stupid" people (not talking about anyone specific here) - I'm selfish like that).
What about people who pop supplements that have not been proven to do anything useful and which may or may not contain what the label on the bottle says is in it? The hands of "big supp" are pretty dirty.

If you take any prescription medication you should know the risks and benefits.

Last edited by suzy_q2010; 05-16-2018 at 11:09 AM..
 
Old 05-16-2018, 12:01 PM
 
Location: planet earth
4,884 posts, read 1,870,779 times
Reputation: 10913
What I find interesting is the focus of so many on this thread of "treating symptoms," instead of wondering about or treating the root cause of this "did-ease."

It is said that while the root cause is unknown, it IS known that stress and a compromised immune system are responsible for outbreaks of shingles.

Given that, would you not think that perhaps the focus might be on strengthening the immune system and analyzing and then reducing stressors in one's life? I see no discussion, what-so-ever on lifestyle challenges or changes - just the mindless herd seeking "vaccination" (i.e., "quick fixes, and no deep thinking).
 
Old 05-16-2018, 12:21 PM
 
Location: RVA
2,174 posts, read 1,273,469 times
Reputation: 4497
And why would you here? That is not part of the discussion. Stress and immune issues are PARTIAL contributors to shingles. My father and a sister had neither and got it. The other sister is a stress tab and she go it. And what on earth is a “did-ease” supposed to mean? Shingles is known to be a viral disease. There are many factors that allow the virus to manifest. When the supplement companies can show that taking grape seed extract is effective for most people against XYZ then they will be as successful as any company that can do the same. So why don’t they? Because most all supplements are effective in people that are lacking that compound. But even if not lacking, they can still succumb, just more people will that are lacking. And I’m sorry, but anyone that says the number of outbreaks of shingles is overstated and not significant is just showing their ignorance. That shouldn’t even be part of the discussion. I don’t “know” anyone that admits to having or ever had VD either, but I’m not ignorant enough to say that it is not relatively common. And reading comprehension would show that I stated criticizing and promoting “big pharma” as a reason to avoid a vaccine is infantile, not deciding to not have the vaccine.
 
Old 05-16-2018, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,462 posts, read 28,348,352 times
Reputation: 29085
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
I hear you on that, my belief is strong that my sister might still be alive if not for all the toxic drugs poured into her body...she trusted pharma and the specialists who worked for pharma. And Yes, we all have our stories and Yes I believe drugs can save people too....
You do not know that the medications your sister took - for MS, I believe? - hastened her death. Without them, she may have died sooner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
What I find interesting is the focus of so many on this thread of "treating symptoms," instead of wondering about or treating the root cause of this "did-ease."

It is said that while the root cause is unknown, it IS known that stress and a compromised immune system are responsible for outbreaks of shingles.

Given that, would you not think that perhaps the focus might be on strengthening the immune system and analyzing and then reducing stressors in one's life? I see no discussion, what-so-ever on lifestyle challenges or changes - just the mindless herd seeking "vaccination" (i.e., "quick fixes, and no deep thinking).
The root cause of shingles is known: it is reactivation of the chickenpox virus. The goal of the vaccine is prevention of shingles outbreaks.

Why the reactivation happens is incompletely understood, but there is research on the immune mechanisms involved. Shingrix is very effective, and it works by "strengthening the immune system." The idea that anyone can completely eliminate stress is ridiculous. No one can prevent parents from dying (or even loss of a pet), divorces, job losses - the list is infinite. Add to that the medical conditions, and the list is increasing, which are treated with drugs that can depress immune function.

You may have a perfect lifestyle and still get shingles. There are no specific foods or supplements that can "strengthen" the immune system.

The ultimate prevention from shingles is to never get chickenpox at all. The current chickenpox vaccine contains live virus, and there is a small risk of shingles from it. However the risk is lower than with chickenpox infection, it tends to be milder, and the risk of persistent pain is less. I am interested in seeing if they produce a chickenpox vaccine using the technology for Shingrix. If so, eventually there will be a population at very low risk for shingles because they will never be infected with live chickenpox virus at all.
 
Old 05-16-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: RVA
2,174 posts, read 1,273,469 times
Reputation: 4497
There is indeed actual medical and scientific evidence of many supplements boosting immune functions. I can’t quote it or waste time looking for it. Supplements cover a HUGE range of compounds. Drugs are definitely not the only answer by any stretch. The typical western diet is stripped of many micro nutrients, and has man made compounds that prevent proper absorption that makes us deficient in ways not known completely. Some of the supplements help over come that. Different people from different genetic backgrounds need different amounts so there is no easy answer. It is not an either or situation. An overall general improvement in the body’s physical ability to fight off infection, inflammation and increase health and well being is always going to yield a better life with less complications. Proper diet and exercise are paramount, but rarely achieved and no guarantee. There are many many cases of healthy athletic people (NOT professional athletes) that still succumb to heart diease etc. It is folly to assume that one is so in tune with their body that they are absolutely sure they are free of any issues.
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