U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-22-2018, 08:49 AM
 
1,438 posts, read 731,945 times
Reputation: 3736

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i pay for coverage now , just like term life insurance .do you think there is a big chance of dying young ? yet most have life insurance .

i pay each year for my ltc to be covered today not off in the future .

when i no longer want it i paid for what i got .
I'm not sure I'm understanding you......what do you mean you pay for LTC to be covered today and not in the future? Most get LTC policies just for that reason.....to be covered in the future for some unexpected serious or debilitating illness and are not planning on using it "today" or right away. So that means (if you get it while in your 40's or 50's) many years of paying extreme amounts chancing the need for it at some point.

Term life is different in the sense that A. It's much cheaper than any comparable LTC policy & B. It's normally purchased for "today" or the near future to protect against the unexpected death of working spouse/wage producer (i.e.; to replace the loss of that's individual's income) to avoid going into unanticipated debt, aid or protect those financially dependent (the other spouse, younger children or both) upon that person in the event of their death. And I'm sure there are some that have term life coverage taking them into their 90's (at an increased policy premium) but our policies cover us until our late 70's - By that time our children will be grown and on their own, we'll have no appreciable debt and enough in the bank (and a good defined pension) to not need the money should something unexpected happen and we will not need a successor term life plan. The policies are very cheap for $500K each coverage and will cost nowhere near what a LTC policy would cost us over the future years (and the premium is set, not subject to double digit increases like any LTC policy you can find today....who knows how much it will increase in coming years?).

Also, again just pointing out that those who do have LTC policies should read the fine print - there are waiting periods & almost all have monetary caps (unless you have "unlimited" but in that case if you can afford the premiums you're probably rich enough to not need LTC) on when & how much they will pay out in total for such care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-22-2018, 08:54 AM
 
2,571 posts, read 1,042,723 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
I always get a chuckle out of these LTCi discussions because the arguments against getting the coverage invariably fall into one of two categories:

1. You shouldn't purchase LTCi because all the insurance companies are going to raise your rates dramatically over the years and you won't be able to afford your policy because they've underestimated the vast number of people who end up in nursing homes resulting in huge payouts for benefits;

or,

2. You shouldn't purchase LTCi because very few people ever end up in nursing homes and you'll be wasting your money.

Hmmmmm.... there seems to be a little contradiction in these arguments, don't you think, lol?
You have to assume the worst case scenario, whether it happens or not. We prefer to fund our own long-tern care as opposed to LTC insurance by creating an annuity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2018, 08:57 AM
 
Location: MIAMI FLORIDA
45 posts, read 29,015 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I am just curious. When do you think you want to die? Iím 71, and I think and hope I have worthwhile time left. I am certainly not planning my death!

You might benefit from hanging with some elders.

Are you sure you are not depressed?
I'm 61 but due to various issues which include very limited family that is physically distant and with their own issues,no friends or social circle for being extremely introverted,chronic illnesses that will affect my mobility sooner than later,and huge financial mistakes I have made that have left me without savings,deep in debt and renting for the rest of my life,these thoughts just creep on very frequently.What's gonna happen to me when I can no longer work...or wipe my butt??

I guess I am depressed...but what can I do? More meds from the shrink??.

I already do all those things you are supposed to do when you are depressed...
Exercise(Stationary bike 40-50 miles/week)...eat very healthy..take certain supplements,try to get adequate sleep,losing some additional weight,etc....but...I can't help thinking about what's gonna happen.

Tks for asking...I guess I really needed to vent at this moment!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2018, 09:32 AM
 
3,116 posts, read 836,883 times
Reputation: 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
I always get a chuckle out of these LTCi discussions because the arguments against getting the coverage invariably fall into one of two categories:

1. You shouldn't purchase LTCi because all the insurance companies are going to raise your rates dramatically over the years and you won't be able to afford your policy because they've underestimated the vast number of people who end up in nursing homes resulting in huge payouts for benefits;

or,

2. You shouldn't purchase LTCi because very few people ever end up in nursing homes and you'll be wasting your money.

Hmmmmm.... there seems to be a little contradiction in these arguments, don't you think, lol?
For me, no ... the two arguments complement each other. LTCi now includes assisted living and certain types of nursing care at home - both will probably increase actual LTCi usage, premiums, and future payouts. But to continue on with that scenario ...

Still, I'd be potentially wasting my money. Sure, in an ideal world I'd keep *all* care-options on the table ... but to avoid the cost/risk scenario of LTCi I'm willing to:

1. Risk paying down the estate for care (though I may mitigate the risk with minimal "estate planning" but only much later in life).

2. (Preferred option A) remaining home with possible paid assistance not reimbursable by LTCi from only heir, DD (who in an ideal world wants to keep living in our current home, given its location etc.).

2. (Preferred option B, depending how DD's plans and life plays out) local CCRC where a couple of good friends are already on the waiting list. Plan A; no LTCi involvement.

3. (Best option) not ending up requiring extensive care, although no doubt some expenses will come along. Still, I'd rather pay for them out of the now curtailed travel budget and/or money not expended on LTCi than assume I'd meet the LTCi payout criteria.

There is another variant in play that also does not involve using the LTCi policies as they are currently written.

Don't get me wrong. Those that hold the older policies ended up with a wonderful deal. Those who can afford the newer policies even with the associated "risk" are adding a valuable safety net.

I'm about to turn 65 and so I've been doing a BUNCH of planning. This thread had me once again revisiting the LTCi decision I made last fall. Maybe I'll type out that rationale ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2018, 09:59 AM
 
3,116 posts, read 836,883 times
Reputation: 1781
This was my thinking last fall ...

I don't view LTCi like auto insurance - which it is not for auto insurance is priced on an annual basis (adjusted for current accidents etc.) while LTCi is priced for high future risk. The value is in keeping it, not paying for a year or two then dropping. An "annual" LTCi policy premium would be quite low for the relatively young.

A better model is the one used for retirement income - the three legged stool. For those who can afford the premiums, it's a potentially strong addition to a retirement plan. For various reasons (some good, some in retrospect not so good) I did not buy LTCi in the past. Approaching 65 (single, with a still dependent college-age kid) I again reconsidered and again passed.

The problem I ran into is this. As when making any investment decision ... so much depends on YOUR situation.The company I would have invested my LTC premiums in was accepting relatively fewer applicants of my age (with being female even more a detriment particularly since that company did not then have a female-only rate schedule).

This was occurring to where the highly experienced nationwide agent (not LTCshop) said he was about to stop sending applications through. It was wasting his time (applicants refusing to pay the highest tier rates) or denials were negatively impacting client ability to apply to other companies. In some cases, the company was requesting additional outside testing - with expenses not covered by health insurance.

For me, Genworth (which writes the majority of the policies in my state) was too risky - NOT to hold a CURRENT policy that might be affordable for the company will no doubt survive just fine. But for a new high-priced policy for a 65-yo single female? Not in the least affordable. Was the cost/risk worth the "opportunity cost" ?

All I could do was research and interpret the best I could. Here, I came across a Forbes article indicating that Genworth announced in 2012 that over the next 5 years on a nationwide basis it would be raising the older (pre-2003) policy premiums by 50 percent and the newer ones by 25 percent. The track record for *my* state wasn't good (I pulled up the spreadsheets). Plus, for my new policy - again issued at an older age - those increases would come on an already substantially higher premium base.

One way or another, future health care costs are going to be expensive. Either medicaid is going to pay or individuals are going to pay or there will be payouts from insurance companies. To minimize the drawdown on medicaid funds, States are actively promoting LTCi and along with the insurance companies working to cap increases. Good, right? If it works.

The problem with Genworth is that all those old under-priced policies are still in force with many claims still to come. The premium increases - onerous as they may be for some folks - aren't going to cover the future health costs. The company has announced that it will continue to take the losses (new policy pricing won't cover the short fall) - and as another poster has mentioned, Genworth has transferred billions to its LTCi books. Will it be enough? Genworth is reportedly (Moody's) trying to restructure to isolate LTC from its other businesses. Not sophisticated enough to fully analyze this, but once again I've passed on LTCi.

Sure maybe I should have kept looking and I did consider and get quotes on some other financial options.

But it gets complicated ... ease in paying the premiums depends on how your retirement funds are structured. The lifestyle cost of carving the premiums out of current retirement income. Withdraw the premiums from investment accounts? Your already-existing marginal rate. Where your bonds are located. The impact of capital gains on future Part B premiums.

In the end, LTCi became more of a hassle than working out the options of not having it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2018, 10:00 AM
 
1,228 posts, read 533,155 times
Reputation: 2239
I'd rather be euthanized then be stuck in a nursing home
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2018, 10:02 AM
 
1,438 posts, read 731,945 times
Reputation: 3736
I'm just wondering if those with the older, "ironclad" policies will wind up getting screwed when the overall payouts become too much for the insurer......not wishing that on anyone but stranger things have happened:

Fine Print and Red Tape in Long-Term Care Policies - The New York Times

"In other cases, families have had to fight to overturn denials, and have gone as far as hiring lawyers to file suit. Many Americans now in their 80s and 90s who are collecting benefits — or trying to — bought their policies decades ago when the policies were more restrictive than now. On top of that, many insurers have since left the business after mispricing the policies and failing to judge the economics of the industry, which has made collecting payments even more difficult."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2018, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Born in L.A. - NYC is Second Home - Rustbelt is Home Base
1,608 posts, read 748,109 times
Reputation: 1372
OP...in the old days the family took care of the granny, just as the granny used to take care of the kids when the parents worked. They didn't have daycare setups much. But those days are long gone. Just got to do the best you can.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2018, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Kennett Square, PA
1,701 posts, read 2,619,456 times
Reputation: 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSLPPTSO13 View Post
I'm 61 but due to various issues which include very limited family that is physically distant and with their own issues,no friends or social circle for being extremely introverted,chronic illnesses that will affect my mobility sooner than later,and huge financial mistakes I have made that have left me without savings,deep in debt and renting for the rest of my life,these thoughts just creep on very frequently.What's gonna happen to me when I can no longer work...or wipe my butt??

I guess I am depressed...but what can I do? More meds from the shrink??.

I already do all those things you are supposed to do when you are depressed...
Exercise(Stationary bike 40-50 miles/week)...eat very healthy..take certain supplements,try to get adequate sleep,losing some additional weight,etc....but...I can't help thinking about what's gonna happen.

Tks for asking...I guess I really needed to vent at this moment!
It's GOOD to vent. I'm in a similar situation, but fortunately do own my home outright, so that does give me some leverage - but am basically alone (have a brother who wants to retire to Florida which I could NEVER do). Wouldn't want him to take care of me anyway - that would be weird.

As a person of faith, I would like to move where there is a good church that could possibly help as time goes by. I know when I was younger, I enjoyed being around the elderly people, and most religious organizations often act as a social service. Historically, they were THE go-to organization before social services were established. Neighborhoods in this country were built around churches and temples for that reason.

You say you are an introvert - yet a neighborhood church/temple could help with that, in my opinion. See if you could find a small-to medium sized one, and make a few friends. In the time you are still mobile, help out a bit (that, in itself, is a huge blessing). And helping where you're needed is a true remedy for depression as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2018, 11:24 AM
 
72,304 posts, read 72,246,407 times
Reputation: 49833
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyram View Post
I'm not sure I'm understanding you......what do you mean you pay for LTC to be covered today and not in the future? Most get LTC policies just for that reason.....to be covered in the future for some unexpected serious or debilitating illness and are not planning on using it "today" or right away. So that means (if you get it while in your 40's or 50's) many years of paying extreme amounts chancing the need for it at some point.

Term life is different in the sense that A. It's much cheaper than any comparable LTC policy & B. It's normally purchased for "today" or the near future to protect against the unexpected death of working spouse/wage producer (i.e.; to replace the loss of that's individual's income) to avoid going into unanticipated debt, aid or protect those financially dependent (the other spouse, younger children or both) upon that person in the event of their death. And I'm sure there are some that have term life coverage taking them into their 90's (at an increased policy premium) but our policies cover us until our late 70's - By that time our children will be grown and on their own, we'll have no appreciable debt and enough in the bank (and a good defined pension) to not need the money should something unexpected happen and we will not need a successor term life plan. The policies are very cheap for $500K each coverage and will cost nowhere near what a LTC policy would cost us over the future years (and the premium is set, not subject to double digit increases like any LTC policy you can find today....who knows how much it will increase in coming years?).

Also, again just pointing out that those who do have LTC policies should read the fine print - there are waiting periods & almost all have monetary caps (unless you have "unlimited" but in that case if you can afford the premiums you're probably rich enough to not need LTC) on when & how much they will pay out in total for such care.
i sure am planning on needing it anytime . my dad had a stroke at 65 and was paralyzed . my co-worker had a stroke at 55 having hip surgery and was paralyzed . it devastated his family financially .

it may be needed during rehab from an injury . i certainly do look at it as paying for now .

we have discussed hybrid policies that are life and long term care and they are the most expensive of all .

we didn't buy our policy for the 3 years insurance , we bought it for all the perks like 100% asset and income protection after the insurance runs out .

Last edited by mathjak107; 02-22-2018 at 11:37 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top