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Old 02-24-2018, 04:08 PM
 
71,612 posts, read 71,751,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
You are not saving for a nursing home. You are saving for your retirement. There are 40 million people over 65 in the US. Only 1.5 million are in nursing homes. Most people don't go to a nursing home. They die at home or in hospitals. If you have savings you are able to stay in your own home and get home care if needed. I wouldn't want long term insurance, because I wouldn't want to use it.
Today the policies pay for in home care and assisted living . That gives you options . If you need Medicaid they can ship you 100 miles away and you have no say if you wanted in home care
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,492 posts, read 10,514,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSLPPTSO13 View Post
When one reads about how much it costs to end up in a nursing home($50-$60k/year unless it's a really
bad one that looks like something out of a horror movie)...it must be obvious that there is no way most of us will be able to save enough to cover those kind of costs.
How much can one possibly save?.. .Is it really realistic that we would have saved $500K or even $300K to be able to stay in a nursing home for 5-10 years? and unfortunately you don't die.... Especially if you have no family to help you at that point in your life ... And then when the money runs out they will jump on any leftover assets you may still own and dry those up...what happens next??? Why even try??
Long term insurance seems very expensive,and probably not enough for a long term stay
Early death,whether natural or on purpose seems more and more like the best retirement plan.

Fifty to $60K a year? Try $13,700 a month (you do the math), which is what it costs here.
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:35 PM
 
218 posts, read 86,887 times
Reputation: 553
Our plan was to live forever. And, as the man said, so far, it's working. We took the risk (against DW's wishes) and never purchase LTC coverage. If we had bought a policy it would likely have been for no more than $100/day, if that, with a 90-day elimination period. We took the risk and are now old enough that, in the unlikely event we'd be part of that, what, 35% of people who have and use such a policy, we could cover it.

I suspect many of that 35% use it because they have the policy. I'm not sure what that means, but it is a factor.

In any event, I've seen folks in full time nursing homes. If you've had a good life, I'd think you'd be ready, and prefer, to pass on. If you've had a miserable life, why on Earth would you want to continue the misery?

Of course, I ain't there yet.
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:40 PM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,205,380 times
Reputation: 17203
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSLPPTSO13 View Post
When one reads about how much it costs to end up in a nursing home($50-$60k/year unless it's a really
bad one that looks like something out of a horror movie)...it must be obvious that there is no way most of us will be able to save enough to cover those kind of costs.
How much can one possibly save?.. .Is it really realistic that we would have saved $500K or even $300K to be able to stay in a nursing home for 5-10 years? and unfortunately you don't die.... Especially if you have no family to help you at that point in your life ... And then when the money runs out they will jump on any leftover assets you may still own and dry those up...what happens next??? Why even try??
Long term insurance seems very expensive,and probably not enough for a long term stay
Early death,whether natural or on purpose seems more and more like the best retirement plan.
You probably don't have to worry about it because the way things are going, tons of people are determined to have single-payer/universal health care regardless of the outcome. They don't even want to pay A PENNY for anything, including bare minimum stuff like copays.

So won't it be fun to be stacked up in urban highrises like in the UK, filled with warehoused seniors.

Nothing here you said is real, though.

The average SNF stay is not anywhere near 5-10 years. It's more like 1-3 but I don't feel like looking it up.

LTC insurance is not expensive.

Yes you can purchase it for "many years".

Yes you can purchase a plan that doesn't dry up assets.

LTCI also covers In-Home care, too.

The more obvious question is why don't people give a crap about their personal responsibilities of taking care of their health, just for starters. Ever watch that TV show My 600 Lb Life? Those people are seriously mentally ill. And their families aren't much better.

Read any books by Dr. Joel Fuhrman , perhaps starting with Fast Food Genocide.

I keep track of my blood glucose even though I am nowhere near diabetic. I go on diabetes sites to learn little tricks or facts about it.

I can't begin to tell you the huge number of people, especially T2s, who just laugh when they intentionally eat the worst possible thing and spike to 300 or something.

The stories are ridiculous. One lady just today was complaining that she gained 5 lbs, higher A1C after vacations and "traveling" when she went for her check up. She was complaining that the doctor gave her ways to do dinner with her insulin that might improve her situation.

What was her complaint? "I have a family, I can't re-arrange my meals or go for a walk afterwards". "Why don't they come out with a different insulin?"



My theory is because "insurance" is paying for their meds, strips and Dr. Visits. Then they even complain about that.

Go watch the documentary about Dr. Gabriel Cousens called Simply Raw. He reverses EVERYONE'S diabetes within DAYS. People come off BP and 17 other daily meds quickly. And by reverse, I mean they have enough pancreas working that they don't need medication and are in a safe range.

ALL they do is change the food to raw, vegan, whole foods (but some cooked is ok, too eventually). Add a LITTLE bit of movement. Like a couple of walks.

Even the T1's end up with very little insulin. And what happened?

SPOILER ALERT:

One guy dropped out. He didn't like the food. It was only a 30 day medically supervised program and cost him NOTHING. He was HUGE, and one of the sickest who made a drastic "recovery" in days. Off all his meds and dropping weight like crazy.

The good news is for you, these non-compliant apathetic people won't be around for decades taking up space that you could afford.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 02-24-2018 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:44 PM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,205,380 times
Reputation: 17203
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFSGood View Post
Our plan was to live forever. And, as the man said, so far, it's working. We took the risk (against DW's wishes) and never purchase LTC coverage. If we had bought a policy it would likely have been for no more than $100/day, if that, with a 90-day elimination period. We took the risk and are now old enough that, in the unlikely event we'd be part of that, what, 35% of people who have and use such a policy, we could cover it.

I suspect many of that 35% use it because they have the policy. I'm not sure what that means, but it is a factor.

In any event, I've seen folks in full time nursing homes. If you've had a good life, I'd think you'd be ready, and prefer, to pass on. If you've had a miserable life, why on Earth would you want to continue the misery?

Of course, I ain't there yet.
? Uh, no. You cannot just "decide" to "use" LTC insurance. You need a medical reason.

Like every other insurance, you have to NEED it.

For Assisted Living, for example, it's even in your contract how many ADLs you are requiring before you can move there. Activities of Daily Living.

Furthermore, LTCI covers IN HOME care, too.

I notice you said "we". Hopefully you CAN cover two separate residential facilities per year when and if you get separated because of health. That's about $200K or so per year.

Hopefully, SHE'LL get first dibs on the good place. LOL
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:01 PM
 
8,201 posts, read 11,915,499 times
Reputation: 17994
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
You are not saving for a nursing home. You are saving for your retirement. There are 40 million people over 65 in the US. Only 1.5 million are in nursing homes. Most people don't go to a nursing home. They die at home or in hospitals. If you have savings you are able to stay in your own home and get home care if needed. I wouldn't want long term insurance, because I wouldn't want to use it.
First of all, LTCi pays for in home care. Secondly, just because you wouldn't want to use LTCi (presumably for a nursing home), doesn't mean that you will actually have a choice in whether you will need long term care. As you state, only 1.5 million people are currently in nursing homes, however, 800,000 people each year - - - that's each year - - - suffer strokes. Whether you have a debilitating stroke and end up needing long term care may be completely out if your decision-making control.
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:05 PM
 
3,099 posts, read 823,205 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
? Uh, no. You cannot just "decide" to "use" LTC insurance. You need a medical reason.

Like every other insurance, you have to NEED it.

For Assisted Living, for example, it's even in your contract how many ADLs you are requiring before you can move there. Activities of Daily Living.

Furthermore, LTCI covers IN HOME care, too.

I notice you said "we". Hopefully you CAN cover two separate residential facilities per year when and if you get separated because of health. That's about $200K or so per year.

Hopefully, SHE'LL get first dibs on the good place. LOL
I know you work in the field and so I'll certainly defer to your experience. My general impression is that ease of use depends on how the policy is written.

Here, I can only think of my aunt who is in an Assisted Living Facility, diagnosed with LBD but still in the early stages. She also has fibromyalgia and lupus connected arthritis. She absolutely refuses to dress herself, and, in fact, probably IS incapable of putting on most of her clothing for she really cannot handle the zippers or manage to contort herself into her typical high-style garb.

Her daughter must dress her before outings; the staff delivers meals to the room even though that's not part of the contract.

But *could* she - put on stretch pants or a kaftan to go to the dining room? Probably, but pity the person who tries to make her.

No idea how her doctor - or one for an insurance company or the certifying official at the ALF - deals with these gray areas.

In my aunt's world, SHE makes the decisions and woe the person who crosses her.
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:14 PM
 
5,429 posts, read 3,450,730 times
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But isn't she paying a high price to be in an assisted living facility - so the small courtesy of having meals brought to her room does not seem like asking too much. And dressing her for outings seems like a small courtesy to ask from her daughter.
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Northern California
107 posts, read 57,141 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
as the insurers found out those statistics were way off base .

for one thing they were based on a generation ago when families tended to do their own care. of course many families were blown apart when one sibling stepped up to the plate and the others stepped back .

the families were devastated financially and socially usually too as one gave up a career .

so that is rarely done today .

there were loads like my father who needed snf care but it was far to costly so there are loads of healthcare workers who take people like my dad in their home and care for them 24/7 .

the people my dad was with had one other like him as well . thee are likely as many cared for this way as in a snf only they can't be counted ..

you had lots of people getting care this way who were off the grid and not counted in snf figures .

many also were using care for far more than 2.50 years . my dad was 5 years and the other person was still going strong .

people who have insurance tend to use the insurance as well as 77% of us will need some form of in home care .

insurers went by those statistics and got crushed
oh bummer. back to the drawing board !!
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:39 PM
 
3,099 posts, read 823,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
But isn't she paying a high price to be in an assisted living facility - so the small courtesy of having meals brought to her room does not seem like asking too much. And dressing her for outings seems like a small courtesy to ask from her daughter.
My aunt doesn't have LTCi so in her particular case the refusal to dress herself would not become relevant for coverage under a policy.

Rather ... I've no idea whether or not someone would certify that she met that particular ADL in theory ... whether refusing the wear the type of clothing you *could* put one would count. Plus, it's hard to figure out whether the refusal is connected to early dementia or my aunt's personality (controlling perfectionism, pure narcissism).

As for her daughter ... She is a saint beyond sainthood. Dressing my aunt can be a 2-hour ordeal. Hair rewashed ... set ... full make-up ... different sets of clothing tried on ... ironed if wrinkled ... the jewelry. And she won't appear in "public" (which includes the ALF dining room) without the full regalia. Just like she never left home without being "properly" dressed for her whole life she's been a beautiful elegant woman. My side of the family? We're slobs who prefer comfy clothing!!!

Is THAT an ADL qualifier? ... not the slob-part!
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