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Old 03-21-2018, 09:02 PM
 
1,440 posts, read 722,775 times
Reputation: 3728

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New/updated article regarding LTC policies and the ever increasing rates:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/million...s&page=1&pos=6


To reiterate my previous post:

"Bad plan and I doubt you'll be able to keep up with it - LTC insurance is losing proposition for most as the premiums multiply as you get older and when you're about to need it. Very few regular people can afford to keep it and pay the outrageous costs as one ages (which makes me think those who came up with this type of insurance knew that would be the result anyway). Also, don't forget, the maximum amount you get is capped depending on what policy you choose.

Other than being & staying in great health there is no good answer here"
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:55 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,562 posts, read 39,944,045 times
Reputation: 23699
saving for retirement

Why bother... Just replace your wage income with an inflation protected income stream. (the sooner the better, age 16 - 20 is a nice goal!),
Age 35 very reasonable for 'married / double income'.
Age 40 - 45 for single earner, (solo)
age 50 for single earner supporting a family.

Healthcare... just a USA issue, plan accordingly (Plan to LEAVE the USA, until you are age 65 (or longer))
https://patientsbeyondborders.com/,
https://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-...a/health-care/
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ented-migrants (My Thailand care has been extraordinarily good. ) and 'affordable'...

LTC... been paying for 20+ yrs (living on borrowed time)... Hope I never need to use it!
To each, the path will be different

Retire early, retire often...

Next time... I will not waste a MINUTE of 'family time' working... When the kids leave home... go back to work (if you must).
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:07 AM
 
13,903 posts, read 7,400,560 times
Reputation: 25384
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlb View Post
There are certain ailments for which assisted living is well designed for.

There are ALCs that are wonderful - provide activities, medical assistance when needed, recreation therapy, music therapy, field trips, trips to the store, rides to the doctor.

I realize they are few and far between. If the choice is between not being able to function on my own in my own home - and this..... or ending my life?

I would choose an ALC. They are not all prisons.
I manage my motherís affairs. She has been in assisted living with dementia for 3 years. She couldnít possibly have lived independently and assisted living is far less costly than paying staff and home ownership costs to keep her at home. It isnít luxury mansion living with staff catering to her every whim but sheís safe and receiving adequate care and supervision.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:58 AM
 
Location: On the road
5,939 posts, read 2,891,210 times
Reputation: 11361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Sucks View Post
The depressing point the OP was making is that what good is it to save up a big nest egg only to have it go to pay a nursing home?
Because most people don't need 5-6 years in a nursing home, you're saving up to enjoy a retirement not under the assumption you'll be the outlier.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:02 AM
 
11,985 posts, read 5,119,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Because most people don't need 5-6 years in a nursing home, you're saving up to enjoy a retirement not under the assumption you'll be the outlier.
True. I have a much greater chance of dropping dead or having a very short illness and then dying than ending up in a nursing home.
Some people have it ingrained in them they they must die in a nursing home after years of an illness. That's not what happens to the vast majority of people.

"According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, slightly over 5 percent of the 65+ population occupy nursing homes, congregate care, assisted living, and board-and-care homes, and about 4.2 percent are in nursing homes at any given time. The rate of nursing home use increases with age from 1.4 percent of the young-old to 24.5 percent of the oldest-old. Almost 50 percent of those 95 and older live in nursing homes."

How Many Seniors Really End Up In Nursing Homes?
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:04 AM
 
71,543 posts, read 71,712,424 times
Reputation: 49125
never go by those statistics , they are very wrong going forward and in fact missed so many like my dad in the past numbers . my dad needed an snf but we could not afford it .

so many like my dad were and are cared for by health professionals in their homes . as insurers found out usage was greatly understated . these people are not counted . the numbers being cared for this way may be greater than even what was believed to be in snf's meaning more than 2x the usage .

that was on a generation ago since boomers are not old enough yet to really be counted ,.

you had so many cared for by family, who got burned too ,and that is no longer done much today as people can't give up their careers or 2 careers . .

my dad was in for 6 years , paralyzed and speechless from a stroke . the woman who was the 2nd patient went on for far more years .
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:08 AM
 
11,985 posts, read 5,119,111 times
Reputation: 18734
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
never go by those statistics , they are very wrong going forward and in fact missed so many like my dad in the past numbers . my dad needed an snf but we could not afford it .

so many like my dad are cared for by health professionals in their homes . as insurers found out usage was greatly understated .
But also don't ignore the fact that there are millions of seniors who never see the inside of a nursing home. It's not inevitable. So far I've had one relative that died in a nursing home. She was in her 90s and developed leukemia. She was there for 2 weeks before she died.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:09 AM
 
71,543 posts, read 71,712,424 times
Reputation: 49125
yep , but today you have a lot treated at home or assisted living . all can be quite costly . overall insurers were fooled by statistics . not only was usage on all care far more widespread than believed but more so if you had insurance .
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:10 AM
 
29,779 posts, read 34,863,854 times
Reputation: 11705
I don’t understand much posted in this thread. Why is there a question about being retired and having a 6-7 figure nest egg that you don’t and might never need. Sounds to me like a great relaxation tea to be able to drink daily.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:54 AM
 
3,089 posts, read 820,707 times
Reputation: 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyram View Post
New/updated article regarding LTC policies and the ever increasing rates:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/million...s&page=1&pos=6

To reiterate my previous post:

"Bad plan and I doubt you'll be able to keep up with it - LTC insurance is losing proposition for most as the premiums multiply as you get older and when you're about to need it. Very few regular people can afford to keep it and pay the outrageous costs as one ages (which makes me think those who came up with this type of insurance knew that would be the result anyway). Also, don't forget, the maximum amount you get is capped depending on what policy you choose.

Other than being & staying in great health there is no good answer here"
There was a lot of pushback (some by LTCi insurers) to this article on the web. This is what Forbes said when labelling the article as falling into the "bad news sells category":
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamieho.../#772d75ca6ba3

1. They didn't like the title, saying that LTC is custodial not healthcare.

2. Current policy holders when hit with price increases can modify policies to reduce benefits or riders to keep costs down.

3. Price increases actually mean that the older policy holders got a "too good of a deal."

4. The article discourages long-term care planning.

5. There are other viable insurance products. Hybrid-products that have been developed mitigate some of the risks associated with traditional polices.

Since the article ends with a warning of high-care costs and the push for hybrid-products, I took it as a plea that insurance can still help somehow even though LTCi increasingly unworkable and/or unaffordable for many.

After the WSJ article came out ... others on the web pointed to the existence of medicaid (and the government) as destroying the "market" for LTCi.

Okaaaaay. None of this ^^^ is really helpful.
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