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Old 02-21-2018, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,293 posts, read 4,148,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
Personally I never get the point of saving only to leave it to someone else??
I think saving with the intention of passing the money on to others is fine. I just think we have to be realistic and remember that what we want and what life dishes out are often two different things. Sometimes you draw the short straw, and then the money you intended to use for one thing has to be used for something else (like nursing home care).
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:55 PM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
1,906 posts, read 673,471 times
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Medicare and Community Medicaid are set up for you to stay as long as you can at home. You just cant have bank assets above a certain amount, and you would need to make provisions for your home - one form or another of trust.

By the time you truly need to be institutionalized, hopefully, you have ALZ or dementia and have no clue what's really going on anyway. It's also helpful to have kids that like you and will check on you.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
1,906 posts, read 673,471 times
Reputation: 3955
Medicare and Community Medicaid are set up for you to stay as long as you can at home. You just cant have bank assets above a certain amount, and you would need to make provisions for your home - one form or another of trust.

By the time you truly need to be institutionalized, hopefully, you have ALZ or dementia and have no clue what's really going on anyway. It's also helpful to have kids that like you and will check on you.

It's not futile. But once you feel you are on a slippery slope health wise, you should start transferring assets to family. Until then, enjoy your life to its fullest, which what you have saved for this moment will help you do.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
3,176 posts, read 1,955,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the states and federal government all have laws and tools kept on the books to help seniors preserve assets so they do not impoverish the stay at home spouse

From my admittedly limited reading, the protections seem pretty feeble. Maybe my understanding is not correct, or I'm expecting too much
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:59 PM
 
3,072 posts, read 816,938 times
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These issues are so complicated. Right now, I'm in the midst of estate planning although I'm about to head out into this beautiful weather then on to lunch with a friend!

A couple of comments. Post-24 hours of reading ... if the issue is long term care and Medicaid-planning then ...

Current-existing laws may change - and that does not ONLY include expansions of look-back periods (3 years to 5 years and, possibly, to 10 years). What a state considers a gross estate and a probate estate, for example, could have far reaching implications for the devices (deeds, trusts etc.) already in place.

For that reason ... and because the most appealing options do not accept Medicaid (CCRCs, most assisted living facilities, reimbursing low-intensity family-provided care, care out of the US) ... not to mention the moral or practical issues of impoverishing yourself for government-assistance, I've never had much interest in protecting assets to qualify for Medicaid.

While that I might need to utilize Medicaid is unlikely, one can never be fully confident how market performance, illness, and longevity may come to conspire against you! So never say never.

That said, it is one thing to know in the abstract that state regulations defining assets subject Medicaid vary according to state - and another to SEE it.

For example, last night I read that if we lived 100 yards down the road (across a state line), the tax-advantaged accounts would be protected from Medicaid. In our state, no protection even IF the account is placed into a pay-out mode via RMDs. This I must mention to my brother who does live downtown. He will be so pleased!

Although I'm only in the initial stages (yet to consult an attorney or draw up some badly-needed documents ... dPOA, update the Advanced Medical Directive, TODs, etc.) ... I'm finding myself more open to various possibilities.

About 2 am, it occurred to me that the most sensible take (one that does NOT involve elaborate expensive trusts, retains flexibility, yet opens to the door to possible Medicaid planning) ... it to draft an Durable Power of Attorney with all sorts of specifically expanded powers that will give my heir the ability to take what steps she deems necessary ...

after the 5-year look back period that I will have spent (or not) being comfy some place.

A piece of paper that I could keep total control of (in my possession) but nullify by simply ripping it up. (With its expanded powers I'd probably want to make originals-only valid, a departure from current state practice these days.)

But for THIS, some basic level of savings is necessary - or LTCi but that's another problem. And in a way as problematic as extensive Medicaid-planning. An expense that may not get you where you want to go.





.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:00 PM
 
1,247 posts, read 565,495 times
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What if they come up with a cure for dementia / altztimers then you probably would want to have that money?
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:20 PM
 
3,072 posts, read 816,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Medicare and Community Medicaid are set up for you to stay as long as you can at home. You just cant have bank assets above a certain amount, and you would need to make provisions for your home - one form or another of trust.

By the time you truly need to be institutionalized, hopefully, you have ALZ or dementia and have no clue what's really going on anyway. It's also helpful to have kids that like you and will check on you.

It's not futile. But once you feel you are on a slippery slope health wise, you should start transferring assets to family. Until then, enjoy your life to its fullest, which what you have saved for this moment will help you do.
Actually, isn't age itself a slippery slope?

My biggest concern is actually an accident or severe stroke. Low risk, though. Almost all our travel is not in autos and while there's a high familial stroke risk, my risk per testing, low blood pressure etc. remains extremely low.

Still ... the whole point of this is the Great Unknown.

So it's time to revisit the documents last drawn up when DD was an infant.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:23 PM
 
11,118 posts, read 8,527,266 times
Reputation: 28065
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSLPPTSO13 View Post
When one reads about how much it costs to end up in a nursing home($50-$60k/year unless it's a really
bad one that looks like something out of a horror movie)...it must be obvious that there is no way most of us will be able to save enough to cover those kind of costs.
How much can one possibly save?.. .Is it really realistic that we would have saved $500K or even $300K to be able to stay in a nursing home for 5-10 years? and unfortunately you don't die.... Especially if you have no family to help you at that point in your life ... And then when the money runs out they will jump on any leftover assets you may still own and dry those up...what happens next??? Why even try??
Long term insurance seems very expensive,and probably not enough for a long term stay
Early death,whether natural or on purpose seems more and more like the best retirement plan.
Sorry, but planning can mitigate most of this. Get the LTC. Yeah, earn the money to pay for it. While working, develop multiple income streams to build more savings. Use retirement vehicles like 401k and IRA. Retirement isn't rocket science. Research and do your due diligence.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:38 PM
 
71,469 posts, read 71,652,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hikernut View Post
From my admittedly limited reading, the protections seem pretty feeble. Maybe my understanding is not correct, or I'm expecting too much
not at all . the allows allow everything from the transfer of assets pre look back period , trusts , loans and right of refusal , and partnership ltc plans with special medicaid picking up bills after 3 years insurance runs out . . all very powerful tools for retaining assets .
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:46 PM
 
2,561 posts, read 1,018,889 times
Reputation: 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Medicare and Community Medicaid are set up for you to stay as long as you can at home. You just cant have bank assets above a certain amount, and you would need to make provisions for your home - one form or another of trust.

By the time you truly need to be institutionalized, hopefully, you have ALZ or dementia and have no clue what's really going on anyway. It's also helpful to have kids that like you and will check on you.

It's not futile. But once you feel you are on a slippery slope health wise, you should start transferring assets to family. Until then, enjoy your life to its fullest, which what you have saved for this moment will help you do.
It appears that Medicaid funding/qualifications is going to be curtailed, so I wouldn't count on it. Medicare is likely to be means-tested, so the more you earn, the more you'll pay.
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