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Old 02-28-2018, 08:48 AM
 
7,948 posts, read 5,053,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
...
Take a look at this half-million dollar house in Castlewood, VA. It's a picturesque home on roughly fifty acres in a beautiful area and I used to work in the county seat of that county. It's been sitting for the better part of a year. Surely some out of area retiree might like it?

https://www.trulia.com/p/va/castlewo...24--1130111340

What's the problem? ...

If you're reasonably affluent, rural areas like Russell County or small towns in the Midwest can offer a fairly easy climb to the top of the pecking order, but like you implied, is it worth living somewhere like that if you're so different from the natives?
The problem is, first, that that house is overpriced. For 50 acres in the literal middle of nowhere, without waterfront access, I'd expect something like $300K. Such a property would be considerably more appealing if it were in similarly rural and austere circumstances, but maybe 150+ miles further north up the I-81, in the Shenandoah Valley. That would place it at the outskirts of day-trip range to the DC area.

The second problem is that whereas Virginia isn't a high-tax state, it's not exactly a low-one, either. For a person who derives most of his/her income from investments, state income tax is a huge consideration, because the federal long-term capital gains tax rate is 15% (or perhaps 20%)... so if the state taxes at say 6%, that's a significant dent. If one could find a sprawling rural place as a "compound" in a low-tax state, establish residency there, and then spend one's actual time traveling around, the pecuniary considerations make sense, even if the locale itself is otherwise unappealing. The same problem holds in the Midwest... land is cheap, but taxes are pretty high. So, why bother?

My casual recommendation to Flyover Country is to offer a modern version of "homesteading"... out-of-state investors would buy rural property at market-rates, but would receive a substantial abatement on state/local income taxes. Maybe they'd be asked to buy say $1M worth of municipal bonds. This way, they positively impact the state's economy, while saving on their own taxes. And because they're largely absent - to say nothing of not using state resources such as schools - they add little to the state's budget outlay.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:24 AM
 
20,625 posts, read 16,666,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
The problem is, first, that that house is overpriced. For 50 acres in the literal middle of nowhere, without waterfront access, I'd expect something like $300K. Such a property would be considerably more appealing if it were in similarly rural and austere circumstances, but maybe 150+ miles further north up the I-81, in the Shenandoah Valley. That would place it at the outskirts of day-trip range to the DC area.

The second problem is that whereas Virginia isn't a high-tax state, it's not exactly a low-one, either. For a person who derives most of his/her income from investments, state income tax is a huge consideration, because the federal long-term capital gains tax rate is 15% (or perhaps 20%)... so if the state taxes at say 6%, that's a significant dent. If one could find a sprawling rural place as a "compound" in a low-tax state, establish residency there, and then spend one's actual time traveling around, the pecuniary considerations make sense, even if the locale itself is otherwise unappealing. The same problem holds in the Midwest... land is cheap, but taxes are pretty high. So, why bother?

My casual recommendation to Flyover Country is to offer a modern version of "homesteading"... out-of-state investors would buy rural property at market-rates, but would receive a substantial abatement on state/local income taxes. Maybe they'd be asked to buy say $1M worth of municipal bonds. This way, they positively impact the state's economy, while saving on their own taxes. And because they're largely absent - to say nothing of not using state resources such as schools - they add little to the state's budget outlay.
It also seems to be a bad area for resale or an area in decline economically:


Average Listing Price for 24224
$136,512
75% below listing price

Median Sale Price for 24224
$35,000
94% below listing price

Average Sale price/sqft for 24224
$29/sqft
83% below listing price/sqft


As a health care worker (OT) I would advise caution to retirement in a very rural area. Even if you're healthy now, access to GOOD health care close by is going to be important. If you live long enough, you will most likely be giving up driving at some point, and an area like that is not going to have many options. If you're 3 hours from the nearest big airport, you may be isolating yourself from family as well or at least making it harder for them to visit.


As far as taxes, some states freeze property taxes of seniors (NJ is one), usually after you've established residency for a few years.


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Old 02-28-2018, 10:56 AM
 
708 posts, read 503,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
This is how the "quality of life" was determined:

"Policymakers have implemented a number of regulations over the past half-century to ensure a safe relationship between people and their environment. Under the Clean Air Act, the Environmental Protection Agency regulates air pollution. Similarly, the Clean Water Act and Safe Drinking Water Act ensure that states properly dispose of pollutants at treatment plants and that public drinking water meets federal standards.
These laws not only help preserve the nation's natural resources, but they protect the public from harmful toxins and resulting health concerns that affect their quality of life.
In addition to a healthy environment, a person's quality of life is largely a result of their interactions with those around them. Studies show that when people feel socially supported, they experience greater happiness, as well as physical and mental health.
North Dakota and Minnesota are the most effective at promoting their citizens' well-being by providing both a healthy environment and a sense of social connectedness. Other top states include Wisconsin, New Hampshire, South Dakota and Mississippi."

Pardon me while I ROFL! So clean air, drinking water, and feeling "socially supported", whatever that is, is all I need for a great quality of life? LOL
I live in North Dakota and I understand lots of people negativity against us because it is cold in the winters.
On the flip side summers are beautiful. The reason we have a have clean air and drinking water, etc is because it is cold so we don't have a large population. This state is not for everyone but we basically zero
unemployment, thousands of job opportunities and higher then average pay so you can go on more vacations to warmer places in the winter. I just don't understand the "while I ROFL part" when you have no clue what is to live here. People are more socially supported because we feel part of being a family because there much fewer of us. Anyway, just understand that people do live here that love it and for many good reasons.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,696 posts, read 33,714,187 times
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If they don't tell you something about the decision maker(s) it's useless. Is the decision maker even a retiree? People who live in large cities before they retire value different things in retirement than people from small towns or suburbia. This was the big problem I found with retirement books and magazines.

Have you ever read a retirement book or magazine that tells you about the great hunting or bass fishing in an area? How about some great bowling alleys? Some people like to do other sports besides golf and/or tennis. And not everyone thinks museums and art galleries are the be all/end all in retirement. I don't hold it against the retirement writers in big cities. I just think it never crossed their mind that hunting or fishing or bowling might be something that would put one town over another on some retiree's possible place list.

And just take a look at who advertises in retirement magazines. They are trying to sell things to upper middle class to wealthy people so it is not surprising the places to live articles are geared to the same audience. That's why I used to tell people not to be discouraged about retirement by what they read. People who aren't into museums, boating, art galleries, shopping and golf, retire and relocate, too. They just aren't being served by retirement magazines and books or at least they weren't back in 2006.

How about one that talks about traffic? I was amazed when I went to Asheville, NC how awful the traffic was for a mountain town. People there looked at me like I was nuts. You know why? Asheville is full of people from big cities. I think, at the time, the population was around 76,000 (it's around 90,000 now) not counting snowbirds. Yet, at the time, Asheville was the "IT" place to be, making several Best Places lists. No one mentioned traffic. You know why? Because the people writing the retirement books and magazine articles were also from big cities. (I'm using past tense because that was 11 - 12 years ago and I don't know whether that has changed or not.) Asheville traffic was no big deal to them. I, on the other hand, was coming from a town with a population of 24,000 and before that a population of 11,000. No way was I going to put up with traffic like that in retirement. But no retirement writer mentioned it. Oh, and the guy in charge of the retirement weekend there was formerly from Manhattan. He made fun of bowlers and had to find someone to answer a fishing access question. They also made fun of the people living in Hendersonville remarking that it was the place people from Brooklyn went. Yes, so snooty that big city people formerly from Manhattan were looking down their noses at big city people formerly from Brooklyn, all living as retirees in Western North Carolina. I was also aghast that a "mountain town" had downtown parking garages, restaurants that opened and closed faster than you changed your underwear, homeless people and 60+ year olds still trying to find themselves. Yet, in hindsight, I realized that people from big cities were so used to that, they probably didn't think they were things worthy of mentioning.

I know that it would never dawn on me to mention lack of sidewalks to potential new retirees. I drive everywhere and if I want to walk for exercise, there are parks and trails for that. Someone from a big city might be disappointed that some places don't have sidewalks...or public transportation, for that matter. So, it goes both ways.

Point being, "Best Places" criteria is in the eye of the beholder. They just assume what's important to them is important to you.
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Old 02-28-2018, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,633 posts, read 17,606,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
If they don't tell you something about the decision maker(s) it's useless. Is the decision maker even a retiree? People who live in large cities before they retire value different things in retirement than people from small towns or suburbia. This was the big problem I found with retirement books and magazines.

Have you ever read a retirement book or magazine that tells you about the great hunting or bass fishing in an area? How about some great bowling alleys? Some people like to do other sports besides golf and/or tennis. And not everyone thinks museums and art galleries are the be all/end all in retirement. I don't hold it against the retirement writers in big cities. I just think it never crossed their mind that hunting or fishing or bowling might be something that would put one town over another on some retiree's possible place list.

And just take a look at who advertises in retirement magazines. They are trying to sell things to upper middle class to wealthy people so it is not surprising the places to live articles are geared to the same audience. That's why I used to tell people not to be discouraged about retirement by what they read. People who aren't into museums, boating, art galleries, shopping and golf, retire and relocate, too. They just aren't being served by retirement magazines and books or at least they weren't back in 2006.

How about one that talks about traffic? I was amazed when I went to Asheville, NC how awful the traffic was for a mountain town. People there looked at me like I was nuts. You know why? Asheville is full of people from big cities. I think, at the time, the population was around 76,000 (it's around 90,000 now) not counting snowbirds. Yet, at the time, Asheville was the "IT" place to be, making several Best Places lists. No one mentioned traffic. You know why? Because the people writing the retirement books and magazine articles were also from big cities. (I'm using past tense because that was 11 - 12 years ago and I don't know whether that has changed or not.) Asheville traffic was no big deal to them. I, on the other hand, was coming from a town with a population of 24,000 and before that a population of 11,000. No way was I going to put up with traffic like that in retirement. But no retirement writer mentioned it. Oh, and the guy in charge of the retirement weekend there was formerly from Manhattan. He made fun of bowlers and had to find someone to answer a fishing access question. They also made fun of the people living in Hendersonville remarking that it was the place people from Brooklyn went. Yes, so snooty that big city people formerly from Manhattan were looking down their noses at big city people formerly from Brooklyn, all living as retirees in Western North Carolina. I was also aghast that a "mountain town" had downtown parking garages, restaurants that opened and closed faster than you changed your underwear, homeless people and 60+ year olds still trying to find themselves. Yet, in hindsight, I realized that people from big cities were so used to that, they probably didn't think they were things worthy of mentioning.

I know that it would never dawn on me to mention lack of sidewalks to potential new retirees. I drive everywhere and if I want to walk for exercise, there are parks and trails for that. Someone from a big city might be disappointed that some places don't have sidewalks...or public transportation, for that matter. So, it goes both ways.

Point being, "Best Places" criteria is in the eye of the beholder. They just assume what's important to them is important to you.
I've personally responded to dozens of posts over the years on the Tennessee boards and the retirement boards for people looking for a more outdoors oriented or "country" retirement. I've talked to numerous people in real life from out of the area, and especially in Asheville, wanting that. It's not an uncommon question. I agree the retirement "listicles" don't seem to target that market.

If someone is big into fly fishing and if that's a deciding factor in their relocation, they're probably going to find out where the best fishing is from some fishing magazine or special interest forum. These lists are of a general interest.

Asheville is a special case. It's gotten a reputation for being "open-minded," and that attracts young and old of a certain belief system. It's well-known for its restaurants and beer, and that brings people interested in that. You also have the climate and mountain access/views that appeals to a lot of people. I hike, and I've been on several hiking meetups that started out in the mornings in Asheville. There are a lot of interests/markets that converge there. Combine that with a relative lack of buildable land in WNC, prices have nowhere to go but up.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:36 PM
 
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There was an incident a few years ago where a tourist (French, I think) jumped off a moving Amtrak train in Iowa. Living in Iowa I've often felt the same urge.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:38 PM
 
7,948 posts, read 5,053,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
...People who live in large cities before they retire value different things in retirement than people from small towns or suburbia. This was the big problem I found with retirement books and magazines.

Have you ever read a retirement book or magazine that tells you about the great hunting or bass fishing in an area? How about some great bowling alleys? Some people like to do other sports besides golf and/or tennis. And not everyone thinks museums and art galleries are the be all/end all in retirement.

...How about one that talks about traffic? I was amazed when I went to Asheville, NC how awful the traffic was for a mountain town. ...
There’s yet another category of person: those of us who were born and bred in major cities, but who took jobs in small towns, spending our 20s/30s/40s/maybe-50s there. Every time that I fly out to Los Angeles on business, I make sure to spend time on the 405. Stupid? Maybe, but I miss the traffic. I miss the imported/luxury cars idling in the lanes around me, and that if I do come upon a pickup truck, odds are that the driver will have Mexican trumpets playing on the radio.

And as for the museum/art-gallery thing, the crucial point that’s overlooked, is that one could visit those establishments as a tourist, without having to deal with the taxes or other urban travails (if one is so inclined to regard them) of the big city, as a resident. Rather, the point of the museums and art galleries in close proximity, is to be among the sort of people who frequent such places, to have them as neighbors and verbal sparring-partners and so forth. Sure, I like New York’s Metropolitan Museum of Art. But how often would I visit it? Twice a year? Three times? That’s a short plane-ride away. Quite likely, had I been living in NYC, I’d become jaded, distracted by hectic-life, and not even go to the museum all that often. I’d actually go more often as a visitor from out of town! But in that out-of-town, would I find neighbors who also like the Metropolitan, who can carry a conversation about various aspects of art, its provenance and history and so forth? Or, would these neighbors instead be experts at bowling and fishing?

Last edited by ohio_peasant; 02-28-2018 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,633 posts, read 17,606,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Thereís yet another category of person: those of us who were born and bred in major cities, but who took jobs in small towns, spending our 20s/30s/40s/maybe-50s there. Every time that I fly out to Los Angeles on business, I make sure to spend time on the 405. Stupid? Maybe, but I miss the traffic. I miss the imported/luxury cars idling in the lanes around me, and that if I do come upon a pickup truck, odds are that the driver will have Mexican trumpets playing on the radio.

And as for the museum/art-gallery thing, the crucial point thatís overlooked, is that one could visit those establishments as a tourist, without having to deal with the taxes or other urban travails (if one is so inclined to regard them) of the big city, as a resident. Rather, the point of the museums and art galleries in close proximity, is to be among the sort of people who frequent such places, to have them as neighbors and verbal sparring-partners and so forth. Sure, I like New Yorkís Metropolitan Museum of Art. But how often would I visit it? Twice a year? Three times? Thatís a short plane-ride away. Quite likely, had I been living in NYC, Iíd become jaded, distracted by hectic-life, and not even go the museum all that often. Iíd actually go more often as a visitor from out of town! But in that out-of-town, would I find neighbors who also like the Metropolitan, who can carry a conversation about various aspects of art, its provenance and history and so forth? Or, would these neighbors instead be experts at bowling and fishing?
So many things are about the peer group. I brought that county map out upthread. I'm a 15%er in my area as a single guy. If I were to get married to someone with my income, we'd be 5%ers. That's comfortably upper middle class in this area and we'd have all we need, and quite a bit left over.

Yet there's always going to be a yearning when you're doing well and surrounded by Natty Light swilling, Earnhardt shirt wearing people that can barely string two sentences. The peer group matters.
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:52 PM
 
932 posts, read 830,364 times
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Per Wikipedia, there are over 3,000 counties in the U.S. To say it would be "too much work on the author's part" is an understatement. For that matter, it's too much work for the reader, the thing would be hundreds of pages.
BUT - USNWR publishes college/university rankings each year and there are roughly 3000 of those. Nobody seems to have a problem handling that much info. (The VALUE of the information presented is quite another thing --).
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:05 PM
 
932 posts, read 830,364 times
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Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
Total complete one party rule has ruined California. The middle class is leaving as fast as they can.
There are almost 40 million people in California. Mr. Vega speaks for one of them. Most Californians do not live in Los Angeles.
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