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Old 11-04-2018, 09:28 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,286 posts, read 6,362,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Agreed. My reference to money solving everything was regarding healthcare and people coming to the U.S. for medical treatment from other countries, nothing else.
Not really. It didnít help some rich people who died young, like Paul Allen recently. It helps up to a point, but not absolute.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:32 AM
 
12,049 posts, read 5,151,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Not really. It didn’t help some rich people who died young, like Paul Allen recently. It helps up to a point, but not absolute.
It solves the problem of having top notch medical care anywhere in the world. Whether or not you live is another issue. Doctors aren't gods no matter how much money you give them.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:19 PM
 
20,630 posts, read 16,673,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
Do realize that there are far MORE medical tourists in the United States than there are in Thailand. I have worked in several hospitals where at least 20% of the admissions were from Canada, the United Kingdom and the Middle East to name a few.
I have already acknowledged we have excellent, cutting edge care. I said it doesn't matter how good it is if much of the population can't afford to access that excellent care. I said a top doctor there was probably preferable to a mediocre one here, not better than a top doc here. If everyone here could access the same quality of care those medical tourists from overseas are, there wouldn't be a problem.


I do know I never said money solved all health care problems, but it most definitely solves the problem of accessing good care, which is pretty much the most important step.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:31 PM
 
14,266 posts, read 24,016,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I have already acknowledged we have excellent, cutting edge care. I said it doesn't matter how good it is if much of the population can't afford to access that excellent care. I said a top doctor there was probably preferable to a mediocre one here, not better than a top doc here. If everyone here could access the same quality of care those medical tourists from overseas are, there wouldn't be a problem.


I do know I never said money solved all health care problems, but it most definitely solves the problem of accessing good care, which is pretty much the most important step.


And if you go to most of the developing world, the model is the same. My employees in the Philippines go to nice private hospitals in Manila to give birth. The masses are treated in open wards of 25-30 mothers and babies in the same room.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:27 PM
 
7,951 posts, read 5,055,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
And if you go to most of the developing world, the model is the same. My employees in the Philippines go to nice private hospitals in Manila to give birth. The masses are treated in open wards of 25-30 mothers and babies in the same room.
Indeed. But there are two fundamental differences, between that situation, and the American one.

First, even in the greatest excesses of jingoistic chest-thumping, few nations will as fervently assert their primacy, their being #1, exceptional and untouchable. The US does this regularly and ubiquitously, whether in healthcare or anything else. While national pride is important everywhere, in few other places does this pride mean assertion of universal superiority. Ask a Filipino about his/her country's evolution as a healthcare provider, and the answer will likely be along the lines of "We're getting better, we have improvements everywhere, we have sincere and successful attempts in treating our people... but no, we're not history's greatest contributor to medicine, or today's global leader. Even if we ask a German or an Englishman, the answer would be more like the Filipino's, than the American's.

Second, most countries and most societies admit that inequality is inevitable, and a simple fact of economics, variations in ability and social-elan, vagaries of just plain luck. It is acknowledged with a shoulder-shrug or rolling of the eyes, that yes, the wealthy have better access to care, and better survival-outcomes. It is understood that a public system serves the common-denominator, perhaps not rapidly or elegantly or tremendously well, but with a modicum of success. In America however we have the curious dichotomy of venerating success above all else, and simultaneously believing that everyone has a fair shot! We just can't acknowledge that, indeed, some of our clinics are poorly staffed and ill-equipped. Some of our doctors are at most marginally competent. And some people - not just glaring outliers, but regular folk - will fall through the cracks, not receiving even basic palliative care, let alone expensive and advanced medical intervention.

Every place in every epoch has problems. No place is some unalloyed paradise, where Harvard-trained physicians work for free, where the hospital food is catered by a Michelin-starred restaurant, the nurses are gorgeous and the cancer survival rate is 100%. But most places are just more modest and realistic about what they are, what they offer, what they can and can't do. In America, we're all rosy-glasses boosters, hoarse with cheering for our greatness. That - and not the high costs or spotty service - is the irritating part.
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:47 PM
 
245 posts, read 79,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Not really. It didnít help some rich people who died young, like Paul Allen recently. It helps up to a point, but not absolute.
Yeah, Steve Jobs died in his 50s of cancer and he was a billionaire. Sometimes you're just dealt a crappy hand in life, and that's all there is to it.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:11 PM
 
20,630 posts, read 16,673,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
And if you go to most of the developing world, the model is the same. My employees in the Philippines go to nice private hospitals in Manila to give birth. The masses are treated in open wards of 25-30 mothers and babies in the same room.
Right but the point is a middle class American income is enough to access the good care in developing countries while it’s not for many here. That’s one of the reasons retirement there is becoming so popular for Americans.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:36 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,650 posts, read 40,020,325 times
Reputation: 23806
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Right but the point is a middle class American income is enough to access the good care in developing countries while it’s not for many here. That’s one of the reasons retirement there is becoming so popular for Americans.
IN the USA, once the HC system has all your;... insurance payouts, (no enough); then your assets, (savings + House / car / retirement funds + first born) ... THEN you must head to a foreign country for care (if you have not died yet.)

Better to start your care in that Foreign country. They are far less likely to take the house from your surviving spouse to cover your HC expenses.

Foreign nationals have referred to the USA HC system as "Barbaric"

It Can be.

63 Year old farmer friend was trying to get by w/o HC till age 65 (Could not swing the $2000+ / month premiums) and today is in Cancer quarantine headed for Stem Cell Therapy (very aggressive leukemia) . They will probably lose the farm and their side business (capital intensive assets).

I have watched it happen (4x) with friends who were 'outsourced' in their 50's and didn't find replacement employment or HC.

Thailand can mitigate these problems for USA HC refugees. (If you don't mind being far from your previous home). Embrace your NEW home, especially if you are going to need / desire "In-Home-Care"
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:06 AM
 
Location: On the road
5,967 posts, read 2,905,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Better to start your care in that Foreign country. They are far less likely to take the house from your surviving spouse to cover your HC expenses.
There might not be any expenses to cover, I've heard many a tale of a hospital in Thailand taking a foreigner's passport and refusing to hand it over until the bill is paid. Obviously this greatly restricts them as they can't extend their visa, check into a hotel, rent a home, etc. and they aren't leaving the country unless they want to swim across the Mekong in the middle of the night. On the other hand supposedly some people arrange payment plans then flee the country, so it's not all hospitals/patients that demand cash for services rendered on the spot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Foreign nationals have referred to the USA HC system as "Barbaric"
I've been met with disbelief when I've been in conversations with people overseas where I tell them in the USA a private hospital will assess and provide lifesaving treatment and/or stabilization to someone in an emergency regardless of their ability to pay or whether they have insurance. They couldn't imagine an indigent person being treated if they had a broken arm, because that person wouldn't have the money for either the private hospital or to bribe the security guard and doctors in the public hospital.
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Western Asia
3,187 posts, read 1,447,766 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineprince View Post
Hopefully, he knows that his kids and possibly his Wife also qualify for Social Security?
Thanks Alpine, I haven't talked to him about it but I'm sure he must know that...great point.
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