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Old 10-29-2018, 09:06 AM
 
71,511 posts, read 71,674,131 times
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here is the same annuity as a joint annuity .

same deal guaranteed 5.50% growth rate .

you can see right off the bat for a couple the amount paid out is less than a single annuity. so much so i would shop for life insurance which is 100% tax free and maybe go with the single annuity and permanent life insurance vs the joint annuity . . .

at 55 you get just 3.50% with the ability to pass to a spouse.

at 65 you are up to a 4.50% draw .

so despite the fact each year your money grows 5.50% in balance , they control how much of that you get . they tightly control it to 1/10% of 5.50%

are looking at an actual roi at 85 of 3.1% that is a far cry from the 5.50% guarantee that you thought you were getting .

in this case you don't see any roi until age 77 where after 22 years you have a return of .44%. that is less than 1/2% in 22 years .

you will never see charts like these from the insurer . it is their lil secret .

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Old 10-29-2018, 10:50 AM
 
13,880 posts, read 7,391,112 times
Reputation: 25361
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
And there should be regulations in place to at least limit the degree of hucksterism consumers have to work through to understand the product.

Yeah, but the person making all the speeches about this is called Pocohontas in Twitter and at campaign rallies. Her strident whine makes my ears bleed but financial regulations to prevent that hucksterism are certainly a good thing.
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Old 10-29-2018, 10:56 AM
 
245 posts, read 78,877 times
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Fortunately for the variable annuity salesmen, there's no shortage of feeble minded people who would fall for that kind of marketing. A steak dinner? Really?!

You know the saying - a sucker is born every minute...
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:38 AM
 
71,511 posts, read 71,674,131 times
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to be honest at that time rates on cd's were 1% or so . so this was not a bad deal looking at it as a cash instrument proxy . but as a bond comparison which is what it was promoted as since it was linked to a bond index , no chance .
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Grove City, Ohio
10,129 posts, read 12,378,690 times
Reputation: 13951
A "variable annuity salesmen" sounds a lot like someone who sold time shares in their younger days.

I am one of those who every last time got involved with the stock market, or anything associated with it, got burned. I even got stock in Web Van the home food delivery service! Poof! went that money!

I do have one Stifle account but I am half afraid of looking... not a lot of money in it anyway.

Best move I ever made preparing for retirement was put off collecting social security until near 70 years old. Turns out that was a smart move and my wife did the same thing.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:06 PM
 
71,511 posts, read 71,674,131 times
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sounds like your involvement was speculating .
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:51 PM
 
6,839 posts, read 3,713,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
It's up to the individual to not get sucked in to these things.
The average individual doesn't have a degree in finance and has to depend on professional advice, just like the average individual depends on their doctor. In neither case should that professional advice be clouded by conflicts of interest or outright huckstering at the expense of the client.
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:57 PM
 
71,511 posts, read 71,674,131 times
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for the most part everything they say is true . they don't lie when they sell some of these products . they are just very complex and the way YOU THINK THEY WORK just is not how they actually work .

i saw the presentation for the annuity i posted . it was a dinner we were invited to . there was not one falsehood told . the slide show was dead on .

every point they raised is true . it just does not work the way people think when they hear guaranteed 5.50% growth rate . you do get that rate . but the way it is applied changes the equation .

so if they say you will get the higher of what your actual account balance is that is linked to the index or a guaranteed 5.50% a year growth and not only that but your draw rate increases 1/10% for every year you delay annuitizing , they gave you all you need to know .

but if you don't actually run the numbers yourself you don't realize that you need to live to more than 100 to see 5.50% and they won't run them for you . they will not show you a spread sheet like the one i posted .
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:01 PM
 
4,431 posts, read 2,608,360 times
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Mathjak:

If i bought an annuity, whom would you recommend i seek one from ( or two one for each of us)??

All i really know for brass tacks is insurance companies can sell you one.

But what if they go under?

Im not scared, just intimidated a little.....and maybe a little dumb about them.

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Old 10-29-2018, 06:06 PM
 
71,511 posts, read 71,674,131 times
Reputation: 49088
you can call almost any insurer in your state that is top rated and odds are they sell immediate annuities .

vanguard sells them but they act as a middleman and charge a fee . you can go direct to the insurers . in fact you can play on immeadiateannuities.com.

you can get a joint annuity that pays less that passes to a spouse .

if it is close in price i prefer a single annuity and tax free life insurance for the spouse . big difference in net
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