U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-08-2018, 03:26 PM
 
6,635 posts, read 4,599,497 times
Reputation: 13350

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Right - I get that - but usually the lump sum is the worse deal, like they're secretly hoping you take it, then you're off their books for good. Unless someone is 80 or older, it's not advisable.
For him it was supposed to be (based on continued contributions and a 5% growth rate) in excess of a million dollars. Now we’ll get about 24k a year. We’d have to live 40 years past age 65 to garner the same level of benefit. Win for the company, huge loss for us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-08-2018, 06:10 PM
 
2,443 posts, read 2,072,308 times
Reputation: 5690
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Well, they may have a hard time substantiating their feelings if in fact the plan is fully funded, and whether or not the payments are federally guaranteed.
I highly doubt anything with teamsters is federally guaranteed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2018, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,489 posts, read 10,514,156 times
Reputation: 33618
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodburyWoody View Post
Yay! Another example of a corporation pushing their obligations to the taxpayers!

PBGC is in trouble, though ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedknut.../#3874f762525f

Actually, corporations aren't pushing their obligations onto the taxpayers, because the PBGC is privately funded.

That may change, though. You're right that they're running out of money. Enter the Democrats, who are pressing for the PBGC to receive "government assistance." Now THAT constitutes taxpayer dollars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2018, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,916 posts, read 14,238,717 times
Reputation: 16096
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
You might be interested in watching this new (10-23-18) interesting Frontline episode called and about the "The Pension Gamble", even though you're not a public employee.
You should be worried even if you are public employee.

Here locally, an accounting firm has been retained to conduct a forensic audit and evaluation of some government pension plans. If they're found to be unsustainable on their face, then the plan is to attack that and force a reduction in benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k7baixo View Post
If a company's goes broke and their pension plan isn't funded, won't the Pension Guarantee Corp. backstop it?
They don't back-stop 100% of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2018, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
25,029 posts, read 23,924,861 times
Reputation: 30916
Default Anyone here lose their company pension or have it reduced?

My father, father-in-law, and my husband. My father got 25% of his pension for three years. I think he should have hired a different lawyer. My father-in-law ended up with nothing. My husband got half of what he'd been promised.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 07:00 AM
 
4,895 posts, read 1,229,659 times
Reputation: 3747
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
My husband’s employer removed the lump sum option. Now he’ll get a monthly amount (with survivorship for me if he takes less) and it’ll all go poof when we’re gone. That’s his reward for 40+ years of making the company lots of money.
That sucks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Sorry, but, then what was the purpose of his annual salary for each of those 40+ years?

If your retirement plan options were $1,500 per month for life, or $150,000 lump sum, I'd take the monthly payments if my only other income at the time would be SS or my 401(k). If I had both available to me, I'd consider delaying retirement altogether.
I guess you didn't read her post. Lump sum is no longer an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
What annual salary? He’s a 100% commissioned salesperson paid a percentage of his sales. And believe me, the company makes out WAY better than he does.

But, that’s not the point. Why are companies permitted to change the rules on their pension plans? I get changing them for new hires, but everyone else should be grandfathered in on the plan in effect when they were hired. Especially if employees contribute to the plan. Spend decades contributing just to have the rug pulled out from under you. Nice.
I agree with you. But if you read the pension plan docs, most of them say they can change it at anytime. HOWEVER, anything already accrued should be paid. Are you saying they aren't paying what he is owed? Or just that they changed the availability of the lump sum?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Right - I get that - but usually the lump sum is the worse deal, like they're secretly hoping you take it, then you're off their books for good. Unless someone is 80 or older, it's not advisable.
Most people prefer the lump sum. It's less risky if your company goes under, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
For him it was supposed to be (based on continued contributions and a 5% growth rate) in excess of a million dollars. Now we’ll get about 24k a year. We’d have to live 40 years past age 65 to garner the same level of benefit. Win for the company, huge loss for us.
Ugh. I am sorry. I hope you live 50 years just to screw them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 07:21 AM
 
1,002 posts, read 751,223 times
Reputation: 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
The last change also froze the salaried employee's pension balances and replaced the pension with an annuity plan, although no details were released regarding the annuity plan. I was age 56 when the 2012 changed occurred, and if I had elected to stay at GM until age 65 my pension/annuity fund balance would not have changed during the 9 year period.
Every retirement plan (pension or 401k) with more than 120 eligible participants is required to submit their plan's audited financial statements here:

https://www.efast.dol.gov/portal/app...execution=e1s1

One of the required financial statement disclosures is how benefits are calculated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
14,398 posts, read 7,926,626 times
Reputation: 53523
Quote:
Originally Posted by k7baixo View Post
Great post!

I only have one example to counter your comment about rentals not being impacted by the 2008 crash in that the home next to us was a rental and it changed hands three times as two different over-leveraged owners suffered from renters who lived paycheck-to-paycheck and when they lost their jobs, they were unable to pay their rent and two different owners suffered foreclosure on it when they couldn't afford to cover the mortgage themselves.

It was really a train wreck by renting to the most risky renters who were also pretty bad neighbors. Since then, we've had two others live there as owners and it's (slightly) better now. See what we get for living way below our means? Bad neighbors. lol

Best wishes for continued success!
I totally understand what you're saying about the rental going under. They just didn't buy right or manage it right. I should have been more clear about why our rentals were still successful during the recession. We bought right and were mortgage free. We've been totally debt free for over 20 years now.

That's a horrible experience you guys had. We still live way below our means but we live in Mayberry.
Thank you so much for your nice comment. For us it was never about things, it was always about security. We have no family and we will need a lot of money to take care of us in our old age, especially when one of us is left alone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 10:47 AM
 
34 posts, read 21,964 times
Reputation: 124
My Megacorp pension didn't go away, but it did get frozen 2 years ago. What we already accrued is still there, and will still earn interest until I retire. But no more funds will be added to it. Instead, they are giving each employee 2% of their salary in the 401(k) (in addition to the 5% match). Unfortunately, the pension amount was about 8% of salary, so it still was a 6%/year reduction in future benefits.

Several years ago, they did change the formula for calculating pension, but people who were currently in the program at the time will have the benefit calculated under both methodologies, and we get the better of the two.

What's kind of funny is they always impressed upon us to look at total compensation, not just salary, when comparing ourselves to the market. The total compensation included that pension contribution, which most other companies stopped doing a long time ago. But when the pension contribution went away, and salaries/salary ranges didn't change, don't you think that our market competitiveness position would be impacted? No, they still say they pay "at market". And no, we weren't paid above market previously

All in all, I can't complain. I still will get a pension, and had 23 years of service in before it froze, so it won't be inconsequential. It will just be about 18% less than I had been expecting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 01:08 PM
 
1,550 posts, read 403,004 times
Reputation: 2896
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBear View Post
I lost out big time. Not due to a company bankruptcy, but due to a company takeover and them recalculating monthly pension payments to people that they RIF'ed out. In other words, they promised a pension, but they never promised how much it would be if they changed the rules. So after 28 years, I get just enough pension to almost pay my monthly car insurance payments in Michigan... It should have been 60% of my salary.


Luckily I have a 401k, and that is a stellar one.
That's a very important point. Too often people are giving advise to young people to get a job with a company that has a pension. As if pension dollars are somehow magic. They never talk about them being changed in a negative way for the employee.

Many companies are getting out of the pension business offering lump sum amounts to employees. There is an expectation about the pensions from the past that we can no longer rely on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top