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Old 11-14-2018, 03:14 PM
 
957 posts, read 1,297,942 times
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I swear this topic comes up all the time but I couldn't find a thread with this title.


This clickbait article is interesting based on the statistics it provides
https://www.gobankingrates.com/makin...rest-retirees/


It's not the "richest or poorest retiree state" headline that struck me, but rather the statistics provided for (most) states stating the percentage of people 65+ moving in or out. There is supposed to be wisdom in crowds - the data illuminates what US seniors are deciding for retirement locations.


Arizona was the most popular state for senior retirees to move to, with Florida being number two. No surprises there. North Dakota was the least popular state to move to, with a net inflow of zero percent. I've been to North Dakota, so I was not surprised by that either.


I would have thought that New Jersey or Connecticut would be the states that lost the most seniors due to the high tax rates, but they aren't. It's Rhode Island. I was surprised by that. Senior Vermonters seem like real homebodies. Net outflow of seniors is zero percent, but they are taxed much higher than RI. Higher than Connecticut or Massachusetts even. Income tax is a little higher in NJ, but they don't pay tax on Social Security. In Vermont, social security is taxed too.

Strange.
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:13 PM
 
2,752 posts, read 991,534 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
I swear this topic comes up all the time but I couldn't find a thread with this title.


This clickbait article is interesting based on the statistics it provides
https://www.gobankingrates.com/makin...rest-retirees/


It's not the "richest or poorest retiree state" headline that struck me, but rather the statistics provided for (most) states stating the percentage of people 65+ moving in or out. There is supposed to be wisdom in crowds - the data illuminates what US seniors are deciding for retirement locations.


Arizona was the most popular state for senior retirees to move to, with Florida being number two. No surprises there. North Dakota was the least popular state to move to, with a net inflow of zero percent. I've been to North Dakota, so I was not surprised by that either.


I would have thought that New Jersey or Connecticut would be the states that lost the most seniors due to the high tax rates, but they aren't. It's Rhode Island. I was surprised by that. Senior Vermonters seem like real homebodies. Net outflow of seniors is zero percent, but they are taxed much higher than RI. Higher than Connecticut or Massachusetts even. Income tax is a little higher in NJ, but they don't pay tax on Social Security. In Vermont, social security is taxed too.

Strange.
Certainly taxes are big part for retirees but there are other things to consider, amenities,insurance and even property taxes might be overlooked by many. Also the quality of life as population increases without much infrastructure to support it, this is a big problem in Florida
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
14,228 posts, read 44,887,015 times
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I am not at all sure I have any faith in the "wisdom of crowds" when it comes to where to retire. People have differing tastes, and my tastes in a place to live and retire to are quite different from what the old Roman nobles would have called the "vulgarity". That said, I guess there is something to learn from the net influx or out-flux of retirement age people per state.



A lot of people just stay close to where they were born and grew up, many are influenced by extended family living around, some are just not adventurous enough to try something new.



Many in the high-tax Northeast are simply accustomed to the damn awful weather and high taxes, so they don't resent it.
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:47 PM
 
6,551 posts, read 1,344,624 times
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STUPID QUESTION OF THE DAY ALERT:

How is retirement income figured, and how reliable are the figures by state?

After my husband retires, and we build our retirement home with the equity in our current home (which we will sell), we will still have fairly comfortable savings and a 401K that will have about an equal amount of money in it. We do NOT intend to take out that money in regular intervals, but save it for major purchases and out-of-state travel.

Our combined SS will be $3,400 or more a month, depending on exactly when he retires and when he starts collecting SS. Therefore, if we were participating in some kind of statistics study such as in the OP link, would they count ONLY the $3,400 (or so) figure?

(Btw, our expenses will come be about $2,200 a month, including groceries, so we should be able to continue to save -- we hope and knock on wood!.)

Last edited by katharsis; 11-14-2018 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,359 posts, read 3,694,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
STUPID QUESTION OF THE DAY ALERT:

How is retirement income figured, and how reliable are the figures by state?

After my husband retires, and we build our retirement home with the equity in our current home (which we will sell), we will still have fairly comfortable savings and a 401K that will have about an equal amount of money in it. We do NOT intend to take out that money in regular intervals, but save it for major purchases and out-of-state travel.

Our combined SS will be $3,400 or more a month, depending on exactly when he retires and when he starts collecting SS. Therefore, if we were participating in some kind of statistics study such as in the OP link, would they count ONLY the $3,400 (or so) figure?

(Btw, our expenses will come be about $2,200 a month, including groceries, so we should be able to continue to save -- we hope and knock on wood!.)
How is income calculated is a good question and has to be answered by the person doing the pole. But when I read publish reports that says income by age group is x and seniors have a low income I wonder how they count RMD's and the draw down of saved assets. The first is income but the drawn down of assets is not but does pay day to day expenses.


When you retire remember at 70 1/2 you have to start taking money from your retirement accounts. You might want to take a little each year before that even if you do not intend to spend it. How much you take would depend on your taxable income. You could invest the money you take in the same type of assets that you took it out of if you like.
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:18 PM
 
1,226 posts, read 1,258,991 times
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Huh, I was wondering the same thing as katharsis. I can't figure out how the authors are figuring out the retirement income figure.

I think Beach Sportsfan has a very accurate point: There are many things to consider besides taxes. One of the exercises I have been doing is comparing costs of living. So, for example, I traveled to Tellico Village in TN. I live in a state without income tax. TN does not have income tax. Property taxes in Tellico Village were much less expensive than where I live by thousands of dollars. But here I have exemptions to employ against the property taxes that I won't have in TN. Sales tax here is less and we aren't charged sales tax on groceries like in TN. Groceries cost a lot less here. Homeowners and Auto insurance were about equal when I had an insurance agent run the quote. Tellico Village has higher POA fees by a lot, but it has more amenities. On the other hand, Tellico Village is more remote, while there is anything I could want or need within a 5 to 10 mile drive from my home. This is important to us.

When I did the math Tellico Village and my home came out about equal in terms of expense.

Then I looked at Sun City AZ. When I did the comparisons between a comparably sized house, the income taxes for AZ, the property and sales tax, AZ is $1,058 more expensive just for those items. Yet it has lots of amenities, and is close to whatever we would need. But it is a desert and that isn't our prefered vista.

So, there are lots of things that need to be taken into account, and I am sure that pretty much everyone is putting weight on what is important to them.

Also, with state income tax, sometimes it works out better to pay higher property tax and no state tax on your income. Sometimes if your taxable income is low enough, it works out better to pay the income tax and lower property tax. What I am finding, is that no matter what, states are getting their money somehow.
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:19 PM
 
957 posts, read 1,297,942 times
Reputation: 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
STUPID QUESTION OF THE DAY ALERT:

How is retirement income figured, and how reliable are the figures by state?
I believe it is pulled off US Census Data, though you would have to really dig around in it to find a breakdown for seniors by locale

https://www.census.gov/library/worki.../demo/paa.html
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Central New Jersey
2,384 posts, read 909,421 times
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Will admit I'm surprised NJ was dead last
Got our hearts set on southern Delaware in 4 years or so. That's the plan at least
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:28 PM
 
6,551 posts, read 1,344,624 times
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Thanks to everyone for making feel not quite so stupid!

I would love to see a poll that just asks retirees two simple questions:

1. Are you happy in the state where you are now living?

2. Do you have enough retirement income (combined with savings) to meet your needs for the foreseeable future?

I would LOVE to see the results of THAT poll by state!
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:30 PM
 
Location: VT; previously MD & NJ
2,198 posts, read 1,341,203 times
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I can speak to VT a bit. There is a reduction on property tax if your income is under approximately $100,000. The house can be worth up to $400,000 for filers with household income under $90,000. If your income is more or your house is worth more, you get less of a reduction. (it's complicated)

So if your income is somewhere around $50,000 a year, your property taxes might be cut from $5000 to $2000 for example. Also, lower income people only pay 3.5% for income tax, based on the federal adjusted gross. That's not so high compared to other states.

I have done well here for the past 4 years, by taking some money from regular investments and some from IRAs, so I was able to keep my income low. But this year I started my RMDs so I have no idea how much I will owe in both income tax and property tax.

Basically, VT is more expensive for those with more income.
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