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Old 11-16-2018, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Northern VA
512 posts, read 632,640 times
Reputation: 621

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https://www.urban.org/sites/default/...018_update.pdf

I don't really understand the charts here and lifetime taxes are greater than lifetime benefits. I'm in between tables 3 and 4, so my estimated lifetime SS benefits are between $473,000 and $575,000 but estimated SS taxes are between $544,000 and $826,000?

Actually I guess I'm closer to table 16, so estimated benefits of $896,000 and taxes of $884,000.
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,783 posts, read 4,838,667 times
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Well, I can see they tried to include a lot of scenarios, but everyone's lives take different paths, so these charts aren't likely to be very accurate for anyone except those that stayed married or single for their entire work history, and whose earnings were fairly even. For example: Just saying "married couple" implies that they were continuously married, and to the same person for the entire working years, when in fact they could have been single off and on, and married one or more times to people with varied earnings. Or for people who took time off to raise a family and didn't work continuously, their taxes paid would be lower.

Other things like "high or low earning" are problematic too, since many people start out as very low earning and may end up high earning. In my case, that spread went from earning minimum wage in 1977 to earning over 6 figures from 2007 until retirement. It's hard to take an average since the number of years spent at different earning levels was quite varied.

Also the assumption that people will work until their SS retirement date creates another source of inaccuracy. Many people retire several years prior to their SS retirement date, so the "taxes paid" values in the chart would be much too high for those people, especially since the highest tax years would likely be the last few years prior to retirement. Since I retired at 51 (that's 16 years of what would have been my highest earning years before my FRA), that's 16 years of taxes shown in the charts that I was not paying.
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Old 11-16-2018, 03:04 PM
 
1,227 posts, read 1,260,355 times
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Just as a little aside, three months before your birthday, Social Security mails a statement to workers age 60 and over who aren’t receiving Social Security benefits and don't have a my Social Security account. If you have a my Social Security account (which anyone can create on Social Security's website), you can find the statement there. The Social Security Statement itemizes your earnings through the prior year. It also tells you the estimated taxes paid to both Social Security and Medicare by you and by your employer(s) on your behalf.

If you add up all the income, and if you add up the taxes paid, you will know the exact amounts pertinent to you.

It also shows your estimated monthly social security benefits, which will allow you to estimate the total amount you will receive based on when you plan to start receiving benefits and when you want to estimate you will pass away. That might give you a better idea of your individual situation.
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Old 11-16-2018, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,302 posts, read 4,403,211 times
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The critical mistake was in GIVING your retirement savings to Washington, even if you ignore the Ponzi Scam aspect (which means everyone after the early Baby Boomers loses). You have no legal right to getting a penny back, though if you live to 100 & benefits aren't cut too much you may get a minimal return on your "investment" (too bad the bulk of the money will go to Big Health & Big Pharma). You gave more than 12% of every dollar you ever earned to Washington, and in return got a politician's promise of a small check every month if you happen to live long enough to get any single penny back.

Washington admits that there must be big tax increases plus CUTS TO PROMISED BENEFITS just to pay the small amounts we've been promised. All Washington had to do was require you to save that same amount, but not TAKE IT away in taxes, and every Social Security participant who worked most of their life would have a huge savings account worth $1 million or more (compound interest) to enjoy while you had the health to enjoy it, pay your medical bills & hire help, leave a legacy to your heirs, etc. UNDERSTAND? Now add that loss to what you lost in federal income tax, and note that almost everyone in the Working Class is poor BECAUSE GOVERNMENT STOLE MOST OF WHAT YOU EARNED.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,916 posts, read 14,238,717 times
Reputation: 16096
Quote:
Originally Posted by djplourd View Post
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/...018_update.pdf

I don't really understand the charts here and lifetime taxes are greater than lifetime benefits. I'm in between tables 3 and 4, so my estimated lifetime SS benefits are between $473,000 and $575,000 but estimated SS taxes are between $544,000 and $826,000?

Actually I guess I'm closer to table 16, so estimated benefits of $896,000 and taxes of $884,000.
The data is all wrong and skewed.

Unless you die early, it is impossible to pay more in FICA taxes than you collect in benefits.

If your average monthly income is $2,000 then you paid 6.2% in taxes, or $124 per month.

Is your monthly benefit $124 or less? Um, no.

You get 90% of the first $895 or $805.50, plus 32% of the next $896 to $5,397 or $353.60 for a total of $1,159 per month.

Is $1,159 greater than or less than $124?

It's greater than, and you're getting 9.3 times more than what you paid in.

If you put that $124 in a bank and got 2% interest, after 35 years you'd have $247.99.

Is $248 more or less than $1,159?

Now, if you invested that $124 in stocks, and it grew at 8% per year, you'd have $1,833, but the problem is you'd have to pick the right stock. If your stock only grew at 6% per year, you'd only have $953 which is less than $1,159.


A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:48 AM
 
71,592 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49194
not to mention spousal benefits to multiple spouses and ex's that can be gotten as well as survivor benefits to multiple spouses and ex's
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:51 AM
 
71,592 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49194
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
The critical mistake was in GIVING your retirement savings to Washington, even if you ignore the Ponzi Scam aspect (which means everyone after the early Baby Boomers loses). You have no legal right to getting a penny back, though if you live to 100 & benefits aren't cut too much you may get a minimal return on your "investment" (too bad the bulk of the money will go to Big Health & Big Pharma). You gave more than 12% of every dollar you ever earned to Washington, and in return got a politician's promise of a small check every month if you happen to live long enough to get any single penny back.

Washington admits that there must be big tax increases plus CUTS TO PROMISED BENEFITS just to pay the small amounts we've been promised. All Washington had to do was require you to save that same amount, but not TAKE IT away in taxes, and every Social Security participant who worked most of their life would have a huge savings account worth $1 million or more (compound interest) to enjoy while you had the health to enjoy it, pay your medical bills & hire help, leave a legacy to your heirs, etc. UNDERSTAND? Now add that loss to what you lost in federal income tax, and note that almost everyone in the Working Class is poor BECAUSE GOVERNMENT STOLE MOST OF WHAT YOU EARNED.
ss is an insurance program .

i don't see anyone getting their term life money back because they didn't die . do you see anyone getting their home insurance back if they had no claim ? annuity holders who have life annuities don't get their money back if they die .

with ss those who die pay for those who live . that is just how annuities work and ss is a life annuity .

in fact it is the best annuity money can buy . no other commercial annuity will pay you so much , be inflation adjusted and pass to multiple spouses or survivor ,as well as add money to a spouses check if they are lower
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,682 posts, read 49,455,573 times
Reputation: 19134
At one time, I was assigned to help a bunch of sailors to 'opt-out' from SS. I went to the local SS office, I spoke with them, and I filed the forms for those sailors. I also attended some of their meetings and listened to their rationalizations for doing so.

I thought about doing it myself. But eventually I decided to stay with SS.

Now looking back I am still not entirely sure if I made the right choice. But I paid into my SS policy, and every year I get a letter from SS explaining how much I have paid in every year, and projecting how much I should get when I am old enough to file for the benefit.
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:40 PM
 
3,317 posts, read 853,057 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by djplourd View Post
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/...018_update.pdf

I don't really understand the charts here and lifetime taxes are greater than lifetime benefits. I'm in between tables 3 and 4, so my estimated lifetime SS benefits are between $473,000 and $575,000 but estimated SS taxes are between $544,000 and $826,000?

Actually I guess I'm closer to table 16, so estimated benefits of $896,000 and taxes of $884,000.
So concentrate your highest earnings in the last 35 years of your career so they make the least interest off of your SS taxes, and then be sure to live a long life so you screw them into paying you more (in inflated dollars) than you paid them...

Or open a restaurant and only accept cash. (Don't.)



Seems to me we are not only paying for the older generation's benefits, but some other unrelated government programs, as well. Get acquainted with your tax forms and note every eligible deduction possible, that's about all you can do, legally.
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:43 PM
 
71,592 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49194
many times because wages are inflation adjusted your earlier years may actually be higher
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