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Old 11-27-2018, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
If you did that, the bottom 50% of the elderly would starve. The payouts are extremely progressive. Lifetime low income people get proportionally much higher checks than high income people. For example, if you made an inflation adjusted $125k for 35 years paying all that money into the Social Security system, your check is only 15% higher than the person making $60k. Iím one of those high income people. Iíd love to have a cash payout. I recognize that the plan isnít for me. Itís for lower income people. Similarly, Iíve always had a high effective Federal income tax rate. The person making half as much barely pays Federal income taxes. Affluent people pay for everything. Itís how progressive systems work.
I'm the $60k-ish guy. I understand there are plenty of benefits for being higher income overall, but given the results of my most recent job search, I don't know if I'm going to find a better wage at such a low cost of living, negligible taxes ($32 to renew registration last week, no state/city/county income taxes, almost all of my shopping is done in Virginia at ~5% sales tax) and $70/month insurance plan that makes that salary stretch further.
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,300 posts, read 4,402,532 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by djplourd View Post
https://www.fedsmith.com/2018/09/09/...cial-security/

Saving Social Security comes down to two choices. We can cut the benefits of those who have already paid an enormous price to fix Social Security once, or we can ask workers who donít believe that they will ever get paid to contribute more.

Authorís note: Readers are going to ask about increasing the cap on taxable wages. I suspect that some change in the tax base is unavoidable, but (1) Eliminating the cap doesnít fix the problem. It does not even officially kick the can anymore. (2) The policy introduces structural changes to the program which will over time crash the program. This solution appeals to the people who wish to throw other peopleís money at the problem. I am happy to take questions in the comments.
BOTH INCREASED TAXES AND CUTTING BENEFITS WILL HAVE TO TAKE PLACE. That's what we get for giving our retirement savings to Washington--2 or 3 times over. You'd get a MUCH better return giving your savings to a city alcoholic passed out on the sidewalk.
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:19 PM
 
Location: PA
33 posts, read 8,485 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You are not negatively impacted by Chained CPI, and you are not entitled to consume and destroy everything like locusts.

If prices rise, then stop consuming, reduce consumption, purchase substitutes or increase the Supply to match Demand and halt future price increases.

Giving you more money to consume like locusts doesn't decrease prices, it only causes prices to rise higher and at faster rates, meaning instead of rising monthly, prices start rising every three weeks, then every other week, then every week, and as historically documented, every day, and even every hour.

There's no way you could ever possibly win this game so long as the Universe exists, so you might as well learn to deal with it now.



Wages are neither stagnant nor declining.

In 1990, 78% of workers earned $30,000 or less. Today, only 48% earn $30,000 or less, because wages have risen.

Wages are rising faster than the rate of all forms of Inflation.

Average wages in 2016 were $48,642 and $50,321 in 2017.

The percent change is 3.45%, while all forms of Inflation increased 2.18% over the same period, leaving a net gain of 1.27%

Average wage in 2010 was $41,673, so there has been a 20.75% increase through 2017.

All forms of Inflation increased 11.73% over the same period, so that results in a net wage increase of 9.02%

Average wage in 2000 was $32,154 so that is a 56.49% increase, while all forms of Inflation have increased 40.9% so that represents a 15.59% net increase in wages since 2000.

Average wage in 1990 was $21,027 so wages have increased 139.31% since then, while all forms of Inflation have increased 81.94% giving a net increase of 57.37%.



If you're average, you'll get back everything you paid in and a helluva lot more.

In 2017, the average person paid $2,573 a year in FICA taxes. They'll get that back in the first 2 months. Even if they only get the average monthly benefit of $1,401 then by the 2nd month they've gotten back $2,802 and they're $229 ahead in the game. They'll get $14,100 the next 10 months for a total of $16,812 which is 6.5x more than they paid.



The operand is "could."

You could, if you don't get taken to the cleaners in a nasty divorce, and if you or your spouse or children don't get ill, and if you don't get seriously injured, and if you don't lose your job and if you don't get taken in a Ponzi-scheme and if...

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

If you are the Wall Street Wizardģ you claim to be, why are you even here? And why would you care if you have to pay into Social Security.

You and all the other Wall Street Wizardsģ can make money from nothing, so why aren't you?

The whole point of Social Security is that it's a guaranteed base income, no matter what happens in your life.

If you have a Beautiful Lifeô, then good for you, if not, you're covered.



Yes.



Then you get to play tennis and ride horses for 5-10 years at a federal minimum security prison.

Perhaps you can ask to occupy Pete Rose's old cell.
Define Robbery...

Yes I used the word ďCouldĒ bc I know the only things certain in life is taxs and death.

You can move numbers up and down and all around and play the cup game if you want. Taxs are becoming a problem! Would you be onboard with giving the government your salary and then giving you a portion back as your fair share income?

The markets will adjust on their own even if I wanted to consume or save how I wanted. Just because I have more money does not mean the prices of goods will increase. If those prices increase, I may not want to purchase them at those prices which means the seller will lower the costs to have more sales. Wages may increase, but the value of those wages may decrease.

I will leave you with a piece from history.

[W]e still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute."
-- Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, 1816

In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all � security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again."
-- Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:43 PM
 
6,942 posts, read 3,064,107 times
Reputation: 4424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquiringmind33 View Post
Define Robbery...

Yes I used the word “Could” bc I know the only things certain in life is taxs and death.

You can move numbers up and down and all around and play the cup game if you want. Taxs are becoming a problem! Would you be onboard with giving the government your salary and then giving you a portion back as your fair share income?

The markets will adjust on their own even if I wanted to consume or save how I wanted. Just because I have more money does not mean the prices of goods will increase. If those prices increase, I may not want to purchase them at those prices which means the seller will lower the costs to have more sales. Wages may increase, but the value of those wages may decrease.

I will leave you with a piece from history.

[W]e still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute."
-- Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, 1816

In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all � security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again."
-- Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
Govt taxation and redistribution is a soft form of raising an army and taking your lands by force of military action. Way back in the day things were simply more honest, if your fathers were industrious but you were a useless lay about living the good life off inheretance you may just have it taken away by military force. Now days with conventional militaries what they are the only way to accomplish that is nuclear.

I think a lot of people just want the full fruits of their labor and not to be scammed by capital earned from generations past.
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,752 posts, read 1,654,879 times
Reputation: 5951
Quote:
Originally Posted by djplourd View Post
https://www.fedsmith.com/2018/09/09/...cial-security/

Saving Social Security comes down to two choices. We can cut the benefits of those who have already paid an enormous price to fix Social Security once, or we can ask workers who donít believe that they will ever get paid to contribute more.

Authorís note: Readers are going to ask about increasing the cap on taxable wages. I suspect that some change in the tax base is unavoidable, but (1) Eliminating the cap doesnít fix the problem. It does not even officially kick the can anymore. (2) The policy introduces structural changes to the program which will over time crash the program. This solution appeals to the people who wish to throw other peopleís money at the problem. I am happy to take questions in the comments.
You forgot the third and most likely option. The government continues to inflate the currency, so the benefit is paid at the agreed level, but the value of the payment is far less than what was promised.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:14 PM
 
Location: PA
33 posts, read 8,485 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Govt taxation and redistribution is a soft form of raising an army and taking your lands by force of military action. Way back in the day things were simply more honest, if your fathers were industrious but you were a useless lay about living the good life off inheretance you may just have it taken away by military force. Now days with conventional militaries what they are the only way to accomplish that is nuclear.

I think a lot of people just want the full fruits of their labor and not to be scammed by capital earned from generations past.
I agree!
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Old 11-28-2018, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Asheville NC
1,602 posts, read 1,313,644 times
Reputation: 4165
Default Sounds like

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I'm the $60k-ish guy. I understand there are plenty of benefits for being higher income overall, but given the results of my most recent job search, I don't know if I'm going to find a better wage at such a low cost of living, negligible taxes ($32 to renew registration last week, no state/city/county income taxes, almost all of my shopping is done in Virginia at ~5% sales tax) and $70/month insurance plan that makes that salary stretch further.
You are at risk of settling for your life, girlfriend, city, job, against all advice from this and the relationship forum. Sigh
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27660
Quote:
Originally Posted by funisart View Post
You are at risk of settling for your life, girlfriend, city, job, against all advice from this and the relationship forum. Sigh
I'm continuing to look. It's going slower than I thought. I had a promising interview with Chrysler in Detroit a few weeks go - now look at the GM announcements. That's probably tabled. A lot of places aren't meeting the salary I'd need to move.

I'm not 25 making $15/hr to where anything looks good. When I changed jobs up in Indiana, the move looked amazing, on paper. In practice, it was the worst job related decision I ever made. I want to minimize those risks.
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:43 AM
 
Location: plano
6,569 posts, read 8,103,218 times
Reputation: 5805
The basic concept of social security should be to pay contributors an income over some portion of their likely life expectancy. The years today's recipients receiver payments is significantly longer than initially envisioned.


The conceptual solution that is consistent with the intent of this federal program is to extend the age where benefits are available as the life expectancy goes up. A catch up adjustment to these ages is required now to address years of ignoring this reality. So make that adjustment and index the age to life expectancy.


The other 'flaw' in my view to the current system vs conception is the spousal benefit under today's divorce being so much more common than at the time this program was designed. I suspect this is not a major impact on the funds solvency but it is an example of how society evolves and impacts a system designed in another time.


I think millennials will get social security just at an advanced age vs today but with enough life expectacy left to make their benefits feasible with this program.
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:26 PM
 
2,443 posts, read 2,071,602 times
Reputation: 5690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I'm continuing to look. It's going slower than I thought. I had a promising interview with Chrysler in Detroit a few weeks go - now look at the GM announcements. That's probably tabled. A lot of places aren't meeting the salary I'd need to move.

I'm not 25 making $15/hr to where anything looks good. When I changed jobs up in Indiana, the move looked amazing, on paper. In practice, it was the worst job related decision I ever made. I want to minimize those risks.
I am not sure you would like Detroit weather and the big city atmosphere.
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