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Old 11-28-2018, 12:50 PM
 
5,556 posts, read 5,063,576 times
Reputation: 3944

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Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
Wait a minute - the people who were promised a pension by the corporation that they worked for, also get social security. So if the corporation's pension fund fails, we're going to make the taxpayers, many of whom ONLY will have social security, pay the promised pensions to those who are already getting social security? This doesn't make sense.

I could understand if it were a government pension that had been promised. We the people are the backers of the government. But corporate pensions? The solution is to pass laws that force corporations to make sure from the beginning that funds are set aside in conservative investments to make sure that there is enough to pay the pension obligations, not to dump this on the taxpayers.
Exactly. People wonder how we got here. This article is an excellent analysis of what's happening with the Generals: GE and GM.

General Motors And General Electric Were Both Victimized By The Same Ponzi Scheme, And They Are Both Telling Us The U.S. Economy Is In HUGE Trouble

In the case of these two companies, what put them on the road to ruins was stock buybacks.

"GM executives were able to prop up the stock price for a while, but at this point the stock is down about 10 percent from where it was four years ago. The following comes from Wolf Richter…

During this four-year period in which GM blew, wasted, and annihilated nearly $14 billion on share buybacks, the price of its shares, including today’s 5.5% surge – getting rid of workers is always good news for shares – fell 10%.

These stock buybacks are a massive Ponzi scheme, and everyone that was involved in blowing such a giant mountain of cash at GM should be fired.

And now thousands of hard working Americans are going to lose their jobs, but it didn’t have to happen.

General Electric has also been victimized by the exact same Ponzi scheme, and at this point they are in a struggle for survival which they are probably going to lose.

On Monday the stock slid another couple of percent, and so far this year it is down a total of 58 percent…"

There ya go, stock buybacks. In GM's case, $14 billion worth. A Wall Street Ponzi scheme. Same with GE.

Let's not forget that GM already GOT a bailout from the taxpayers, and now they want the taxpayers to be on the hook for its corporate pensions.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:27 PM
 
4,431 posts, read 2,608,360 times
Reputation: 10299
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
Wait a minute - the people who were promised a pension by the corporation that they worked for, also get social security. So if the corporation's pension fund fails, we're going to make the taxpayers, many of whom ONLY will have social security, pay the promised pensions to those who are already getting social security? This doesn't make sense.

I could understand if it were a government pension that had been promised. We the people are the backers of the government. But corporate pensions? The solution is to pass laws that force corporations to make sure from the beginning that funds are set aside in conservative investments to make sure that there is enough to pay the pension obligations, not to dump this on the taxpayers.

Amen.

Ive never worked where i got a pension. Why should i, as a taxpayer pay extra taxes to pay the failed pension of someone who supposedly was to get one.

Gee i pay more and get even less.

The corporations who sponsor these pensions NEED to be held accountable. Not paying a CEO multiple millions or even billions of dollars and putting that in the pension fund will be a big start.

Even govt pensions should be held accountable.

The pension guarantee fund or whatever its called should be paid into as insurance by the companies that need the guarantee to back their mismanaged pension funds.

Must be nice to have a pension and have the whole country guaranteeing that you get it.

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Old 11-29-2018, 01:29 PM
 
356 posts, read 222,410 times
Reputation: 622
Do you people think corporate pensions are only for millionaire corporate officers?


All the 14,000 people being laid off at GM are corporate employees who benefit from corporate pensions. Many of these people are probably vested and will get some pension.


It's ridiculous to think the average GM employee has anything to say about how the pension was invested or any ability to 'claw back' money from Wall Street.


If you want to protest government spending look at all the money spent on social services and healthcare for illegal immigrants.
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Old 11-29-2018, 03:29 PM
 
3,093 posts, read 1,717,786 times
Reputation: 3459
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG120 View Post
Just curious,

Are you in favor of taxpayers giving billions a year to the oil companies? How about the bank bailout? What about the new Amazon HQ's?

Taxpayers pay for everything, which is why we don't live in a true capitalist economy. If we did, the gov't wouldn't bail out anyone.
Retirees are tax payers too. Pension is taxable as ordinary income. IRA distributions are taxable. Investment income is taxable. Retirees buy medical insurance.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Floyd Co, VA
3,415 posts, read 5,132,424 times
Reputation: 7231
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Amen.

Ive never worked where i got a pension. Why should i, as a taxpayer pay extra taxes to pay the failed pension of someone who supposedly was to get one.

Gee i pay more and get even less.

The corporations who sponsor these pensions NEED to be held accountable. Not paying a CEO multiple millions or even billions of dollars and putting that in the pension fund will be a big start.

Even govt pensions should be held accountable.

The pension guarantee fund or whatever its called should be paid into as insurance by the companies that need the guarantee to back their mismanaged pension funds.

Must be nice to have a pension and have the whole country guaranteeing that you get it.

The PBGC is paid into by the employers but the rates are absurdly low. Here's a link to chart with the amounts: https://www.pbgc.gov/prac/prem/premium-rates
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:22 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 1,933,869 times
Reputation: 4597
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
"more than a few politicians" - could you name some of them so this doesn't sound like a baseless conspiracy theory?
The House has gone "D." That's all you need to know.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:30 AM
 
Location: Central NY
4,655 posts, read 3,239,300 times
Reputation: 11912
^^^^ Thank goodness.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:50 AM
Status: "Loving life, wife and job!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: USA
994 posts, read 382,712 times
Reputation: 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarc View Post
Exactly. People wonder how we got here. This article is an excellent analysis of what's happening with the Generals: GE and GM.

General Motors And General Electric Were Both Victimized By The Same Ponzi Scheme, And They Are Both Telling Us The U.S. Economy Is In HUGE Trouble

In the case of these two companies, what put them on the road to ruins was stock buybacks.

"GM executives were able to prop up the stock price for a while, but at this point the stock is down about 10 percent from where it was four years ago. The following comes from Wolf Richter…

During this four-year period in which GM blew, wasted, and annihilated nearly $14 billion on share buybacks, the price of its shares, including today’s 5.5% surge – getting rid of workers is always good news for shares – fell 10%.

These stock buybacks are a massive Ponzi scheme, and everyone that was involved in blowing such a giant mountain of cash at GM should be fired.

And now thousands of hard working Americans are going to lose their jobs, but it didn’t have to happen.

General Electric has also been victimized by the exact same Ponzi scheme, and at this point they are in a struggle for survival which they are probably going to lose.

On Monday the stock slid another couple of percent, and so far this year it is down a total of 58 percent…"

There ya go, stock buybacks. In GM's case, $14 billion worth. A Wall Street Ponzi scheme. Same with GE.

Let's not forget that GM already GOT a bailout from the taxpayers, and now they want the taxpayers to be on the hook for its corporate pensions.
You're quoting a guy selling a book? GE's problem is strictly mismanagement. Immelt was advised against buying Alstom for example but forged ahead with the permission of a board who did nothing but rubber-stamp every decision.

GE's not going anywhere. With the divestitures of BHGE and Healthcare, the remains will still smaller but strong. After the current power cycle dips and more turbines are needed, GE Power will be back. GE Aviation is still a great business. The end of GE is greatly exaggerated.
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