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Old 11-25-2018, 04:53 PM
 
5,556 posts, read 5,063,576 times
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https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...n-fund-bailout

"While public pensions funds have hogged most of the media spotlight, Congress has been quietly taking steps to address a more vulnerable sector of the pension space. To wit, a bipartisan group of lawmakers sneaked a provision into this year's budget deal that established a committee to decide how to prevent the retirement benefits of 1 million Americans from evaporating once thousands of failing "multiemployer" plans finally collapse into insolvency.

That committee was given a deadline of Nov. 30 to propose a solution. And while many ideas have been bandied about (including raising fees, levies and contributions on healthy plans to subsidize their failing cousins), from the beginning, it's difficult to imagine how this $500 billion shortfall (the aggregate underfunding of these corporate pension plans, according to an estimate from Boston College) could be covered without the American taxpayer footing the bill. Adding to the urgency, nearly one-quarter of the 1,400 multiemployer plans in the US are in the "red zone," meaning they will likely go broke within the next decade. And if the recent bout of turmoil across virtually all asset classes continues, the day of reckoning could be hastened. Particularly if the low returns on conventional assets force these funds to place riskier bets on alternative strategies like hedge funds, something that many funds did in desperation during the ZIRP era."

"So it shouldn't come as a surprise that, in the first draft of its plan to save these pensions, the committee proposed restoring the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) to solvency with - you guessed it - taxpayer backed "subsidies" from the Treasury to the tune of $3 billion a year. The plan is also considering raising premiums, introducing new fees and - importantly - cutting benefits."

Sorry, I don't think taxpayers should have to bail out retirees of American corporations. There are many retirees who will be working until they day they die, to supplement Social Security, because their investments didn't work out or whatever. And they'll pay taxes so other retirees can double dip with Social Security AND taxpayer funded pensions. I call BS.

People living a modest retirement, watching their pennies, and people working meager jobs today, shouldn't have to pay for corporate retirees to live in a gated community with three pools, a golf course and line dancing. Sorry it didn't work out. You want your money? Claw it back from Wall Street, the banks, the CEOs like Jeff Immelt who hollowed out GE, etc. Millions of taxpayers who are having a hard time making it don't owe you a retirement. Sell your golf cart.
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,209 posts, read 8,513,923 times
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Why do you act like those with corporate pensions all have golf carts and are living, apparently, in expensive retirement communities? No need to demonize the retirees when it is the execs who failed to adequately fund the accounts! BTW, there are regulations about how funding is to be done and there are some safeguards in place to protect those who are due a pension if a company goes bankrupt.

These days I am more outraged at corporate welfare than that for individuals but let's be sure the right people are punished.
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:11 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,876,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Why do you act like those with corporate pensions all have golf carts and are living, apparently, in expensive retirement communities? No need to demonize the retirees when it is the execs who failed to adequately fund the accounts! BTW, there are regulations about how funding is to be done and there are some safeguards in place to protect those who are due a pension if a company goes bankrupt.

These days I am more outraged at corporate welfare than that for individuals but let's be sure the right people are punished.
I was about to post the same thing. If they have to limit benefits, they should only do it above a reasonable amount and hit harder as it goes up, possibly even setting a ceiling that no payouts go above. The goal should be to keep the participants afloat, not bail out the fund.
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:22 PM
 
5,556 posts, read 5,063,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Why do you act like those with corporate pensions all have golf carts and are living, apparently, in expensive retirement communities? No need to demonize the retirees when it is the execs who failed to adequately fund the accounts! BTW, there are regulations about how funding is to be done and there are some safeguards in place to protect those who are due a pension if a company goes bankrupt.

These days I am more outraged at corporate welfare than that for individuals but let's be sure the right people are punished.
In answer to your first question, having lived in Florida (different parts) since the 1980s, I've seen it first hand for years. Not all those communities started out expensive, but even the more modest ones are expensive now, thanks to the retirees who bid everything up here.

Did you even read the article or any part of it? I don't give a rat's behind if the PBGC funds the pensions if the company goes bankrupt, provided there are provisions in place, what I care about is taking it from the taxpayers. Which is what's going to happen, apparently. Think any of those double-dippers are going to object? HECK, NO! Maybe if they don't get it from the taxpayers, some of whom are peeing in cups just to keep their jobs at Amazon rather than take a bathroom break, they will go after Wall Street and corporate execs. Which is exactly what I advocate.
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:11 PM
JRR
 
Location: Middle Tennessee
3,677 posts, read 2,224,193 times
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We are retired, taxpayers and don't have any pensions to speak of. I wouldn't be thrilled about the govt spending $3 billion a year to bail out the corporate pensions. However, I can think of a lot of other ways that our govt spends money that get me lit up more than trying to help those people who have pensions that they were depending on and could be disappearing.
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:51 PM
 
5,556 posts, read 5,063,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRR View Post
We are retired, taxpayers and don't have any pensions to speak of. I wouldn't be thrilled about the govt spending $3 billion a year to bail out the corporate pensions. However, I can think of a lot of other ways that our govt spends money that get me lit up more than trying to help those people who have pensions that they were depending on and could be disappearing.
Oh, don't get me wrong, for example, depending on who you believe, the Pentagon is "missing" between $3 trillion and $23 trillion it can't account for and that frosts my backside.

No pensions here, either, but I don't think it should fall to the taxpayer to bail out corporate pensions, period. Again, I'm sorry people aren't going to get what they were promised, but it should be up to them to handle it, not working people. I've made both good and bad investments. Had to take my lumps on the bad investments. So should corporate pensioners.
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Old 11-25-2018, 07:02 PM
 
5,556 posts, read 5,063,576 times
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What about all the young people struggling with college debt? They can't even discharge those debts in bankruptcy.

If you're going to bail out corporate pensions on the backs of these young folks, then release them from these debts or at least allow them to declare bankruptcy and let them have a fresh start.

And that's why I say "Not only NO, but HE** NO!"
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Old 11-25-2018, 07:07 PM
 
10,058 posts, read 4,654,843 times
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they took out loans for college... where are the loans for retirement?

stop comparing college debt to retirement funds, they arent the same
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Old 11-25-2018, 07:17 PM
 
5,556 posts, read 5,063,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
they took out loans for college... where are the loans for retirement?

stop comparing college debt to retirement funds, they arent the same
Yah, I'll tell you where the loans for retirement are: HELOCs and reverse mortgages. Got a couple of neighbors with those.

Nonetheless, I am not comparing college debt to retirement funds. I'm saying let the young folks discharge their debts in bankruptcy if they're going to have to pay to bail out corporate pensions. That's fair.
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Old 11-25-2018, 07:30 PM
 
10,058 posts, read 4,654,843 times
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it isnt even the same thing, how do you get fairness out of it?

why not cut food stamps instead to save tax money? or cut medicare?

and those arent retirement loans, they put up collateral for that money, what collateral did the student put up for college? his "future"? now the banks are collecting on it. dont put something up for collateral if you dont want to risk losing it
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