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Old 12-08-2018, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,872 posts, read 1,402,350 times
Reputation: 10071

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
I sure would. Do you think the shoe store just wants to hand out $10 bills for fun? Almost nothing is really free in this world. The salesperson has a right to make a living. If you listen to their pitch and you're open to it, and decide against it, fine you got a free steak dinner, $10 or whatever - no harm, no foul. But if you've already decided you have zero interest and aren't buying before you even sign up (as several peeps have admitted here), you have zero integrity and zero self respect. And for those who then complain about how they were treated, or the quality of the meal - seriously?

Are you OK with people knowingly, deliberately wasting your time and money in your line of work? And then bragging about when they got a free dinner off you?
Most folks in sales, just about any sales expect a certain % of folks who do just that. I'd say it's built into the cost.
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Old 12-08-2018, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,434,659 times
Reputation: 15678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/y...gtype=Homepage

"In short (and short is hard when trying to break down products like these), equity indexed annuities tend to work something like this: You hand over a sum of money to an insurance company for a period of time, and at the end you are guaranteed to get at least that much money back if you don't take some money out along the way. You generally don’t get a monthly check, and you agree not to take large amounts out during that period unless you are willing to pay a penalty. As for that equity index part, the insurance company will generally add money to the amount you initially plunked down, providing a portion of the gains reflected in whatever stock index the insurance company is using."

"To learn more about the chart in the pamphlet, I contacted the annuity company that created it, American Equity Investment Life Holding Company.

I asked Steven D. Schwartz, vice president of investor relations for the company, why the chart doesn’t show the returns for the S&P 500 with reinvested dividends. He said it was because the point of the chart is to show the lack of volatility of an equity indexed annuity compared with the S&P 500.

Of course, showing the S&P 500 with reinvested dividends would also do that."


The "free" steak dinner isn't

Caveat Emptor
I have a neighbor who runs one of those annuity sales organizations that invite you to dinner. He, too, has that S&P 500 chart without reinvested dividends.

He's finishing up building a new house -- 22,000 square feet. He's sunk about $13 Million into building it. He even has a car lift in his garage that lifts his Lamborghini and Rolls Royce up into his master bedroom (which has two king sized beds side-by-side.) Well, technically it isn't into his bedroom; the bedroom is separated from the car lift by floor to ceiling glass. The house also has something like 12 drop-down movie screens and projectors in various rooms. He has a drop-dead gorgeous view of the Las Vegas Strip.

The annuity sales business has been very good to him.
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Old 12-08-2018, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,434,659 times
Reputation: 15678
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrasser View Post
Did the talking head happen to mention what the annual fees for this Annuity were.
They surely would take a bite out of your returns.
At one event I went to (solely for the food), the presenter headed this off at the pass. He said, "have any of you ever bought or sold a house - show of hands, please?"

Of course, everyone raised their hand.

The presenter then went on to say "who pays the real estate agent's commission?" Answer: "The Seller, of course! It is the same with annuities: the seller (company XYZ) pays the commission. You (buyer/investor) don't pay anything."

This line of reasoning resonated with aging attendees, as I saw heads nod up and down. I don't think anyone in the room (other than me) understood that a commission is best analyzed as a tax, and Econ 101 teaches us that who pays the tax (e.g., who pays the commission) is independent of who bears the economic burden of that tax (commission.)
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Old 12-08-2018, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,434,659 times
Reputation: 15678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
If you go to a free steak dinner with ZERO intention of buying the sellers product, you’re just as sketchy as the seller - you deserve each other.
These sales people know full well many in the audience have no intention of buying and are just there for the free food. In that industry, they even have a term for those people: "Plate Lickers."
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:45 PM
 
801 posts, read 211,610 times
Reputation: 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
Most folks in sales, just about any sales expect a certain % of folks who do just that. I'd say it's built into the cost.
Just because something is expected doesn't make it ethical. In the credit business, it is expected that a certain percentage of people will default -- doesn't mean it's acceptable.
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:55 PM
 
71,520 posts, read 71,694,121 times
Reputation: 49105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
At one event I went to (solely for the food), the presenter headed this off at the pass. He said, "have any of you ever bought or sold a house - show of hands, please?"

Of course, everyone raised their hand.

The presenter then went on to say "who pays the real estate agent's commission?" Answer: "The Seller, of course! It is the same with annuities: the seller (company XYZ) pays the commission. You (buyer/investor) don't pay anything."

This line of reasoning resonated with aging attendees, as I saw heads nod up and down. I don't think anyone in the room (other than me) understood that a commission is best analyzed as a tax, and Econ 101 teaches us that who pays the tax (e.g., who pays the commission) is independent of who bears the economic burden of that tax (commission.)
it depends on the annuity . many annuities today offer guarantees . usually the guarantees play out better then the investment side .

if you like the guarantees , well that is your deal then . it does not matter what expenses are if you like that deal . om the guaranteed side all expenses are built in to the rate .

as an example at the time that prudential annuity was at a time interest rates were 1% ...

even the worst case outcome was not a bad deal for a proxy for a cash instrument .

as an investment , not so good . but if i had some cash i was going to put in cash instruments , well it was a pretty good deal

Last edited by mathjak107; 12-08-2018 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, NC
7,185 posts, read 11,227,455 times
Reputation: 30752
We get invited to hear about tax laws in retirement, social security info, and other financial topics. We go and we listen to what they have to say. I even take notes for my own research after I get home. Haven't bought or set up a follow up appointment yet.

We're perfectly happy with what our financial guy has done for us over the past 20 years. But who knows, maybe one day we'll have one of these "hosts" do a once over of our portfolio to see what they have to say.

For now, I'll continue to eat their steak, listen to their spiel, and see where it goes.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:20 PM
 
9,367 posts, read 6,254,641 times
Reputation: 17688
I treat these guys the same as timeshare salesmen...No respect
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:40 AM
 
801 posts, read 211,610 times
Reputation: 1347
The litmus test for me is whether these representatives are fiduciaries.
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,872 posts, read 1,402,350 times
Reputation: 10071
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
I treat these guys the same as timeshare salesmen...No respect
Lol, why?
So I have a Disney timeshare that I love, no one lied to me, no one pressured me to buy. Since 1999 I ve gone on fabulous Disney vacations every year with tons of friends and family and I'm throwing my retirement party there. I travel in luxury, the way I like. I also go other places.
Next year I'm throwing my retirement party for 50 people there.
So are these salespeople holding a gun to someone's head? Are they threatening their children. I have way more respect for them than the people who complain here endlessly about how broke they are while doing nothing to change their lives
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