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Old 12-13-2018, 02:03 PM
 
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I'm sorry -- did I shut this topic down? If anyone else wants to post, I promise to shut up and go away. I do promise. :-)
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
I'm sorry -- did I shut this topic down? If anyone else wants to post, I promise to shut up and go away. I do promise. :-)
Nah you didn't shut it down. There will be more posts I am sure. It is a good topic.
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
I was pretty sure you weren't serious. It was just your comment, the reply and my 'visualization' that made me laugh. Short-lived that it was. :-)

Life is such a crap shoot. No matter how well we plan, no matter what we do -- even if the government decided to really care about us -- there is no real security. I know and have known so many older people in the past 10+ years who have just had it so rough. The 2008 Crash. The unexpected death of a spouse. H, the fire in Paradise, CA. And the death of a spouse reminds me: husband or wife, be sure to do a budget without the income of the other. I am always amazed at the number of widows and widowers who I know and have known who never did this (had a plan for being alone), and then, when their spouse died, was completely at loose ends.
What I have seen is some people went directly from living with their parents to married and never lived on their own. Consequently, some never learned to cook, clean and take care bills/finances. Once widowed they are lost for a while.
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jasperhobbs View Post
What I have seen is some people went directly from living with their parents to married and never lived on their own. Consequently, some never learned to cook, clean and take care bills/finances. Once widowed they are lost for a while.
Well, I don't find that among women, not in general. In fact, I've never known any woman who didn't know how to cook and clean. But, for example, my mother's generation -- dad took care of all the finances. Good thing Mom died first. But even with my generation -- I have been absolutely astounded at how much widowed women don't know about money. I've known women who have had to sell their homes because they couldn't afford the mortgage payment anymore after their husband died. A lot of widows are not just at least at a loss for a while after their husbands die -- they are at a total loss, and a lot of them don't recover. What we read/see in organizations like AARP are not true for the vast majority of the 65+ today.

Among men -- it's been my experience that they know how to handle their money. But when the wife dies, the men tend to be at a loss socially. I see A LOT of widowed men who are lonely AND isolated. I can name 10 male neighbors right now who are both lonely and isolated, and they have been ever since their wife died.
Most of that isolation is self imposed -- but then they don't think they have the social skills to 'get out there' (and too often they really don't). The wife usually took care of the socializing.

I used to give seminars, to employees considering retirement, on how to do a budget at my union when I was working. Man or woman -- if you ask 100 people how many do a written monthly budget (and/or annual budget -- we need both), perhaps 25% will raise their hands (and I bet some of them lied LOL).

I did a budget with pencil, paper and calculator for 30 years. HUGE pain in the rear -- but I didn't think I had a choice (and I didn't). When I retired, I went to my community college and learned how to do MS Office. Now, for the past 10 years, I do both my monthly and annual budgets (and my projected budgets for future years) on Excel. Makes it MUCH easier. :-)

(MORE than you EVER wanted to know.)

Last edited by Fran66; 12-13-2018 at 03:03 PM..
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Old 12-13-2018, 03:09 PM
 
1,979 posts, read 2,729,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperhobbs View Post
What I have seen is some people went directly from living with their parents to married and never lived on their own. Consequently, some never learned to cook, clean and take care bills/finances. Once widowed they are lost for a while.
Society has imposed this idea of how retirement should be for all of us -- and it's not at all true. For me, I was fortunate to be able to do all the traveling I ever wanted to do while I was working (and younger). But a lot of people have this dream of being able to travel when they retire, and that may be unrealistic for a lot if not most.

A long time ago, my doctor said that all he needed in retirement was his dog, a studio apartment, his books, a computer and Internet, and a car. And that changed my whole way of thinking before I retired. Now, I have more than that -- but not much more -- although I could afford more -- and I'm quite contented. I will admit that if I hadn't done all that traveling and that if I couldn't afford to travel now, I might not be quite as content. Still, I have a rough over my head, more than enough food, a car, my books, some money in the bank -- and I'm much better off than a lot of my fellow retirees (who are not part of the upper 1-25% -- and I'm not among those).

I think we all just need to dumb down our retirement expectations, to a greater or lesser extent.

And I have to get ready to go to a stupid dinner party, so I'm gone. :-)
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Northern VA
512 posts, read 634,261 times
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I appreciate most of the comments and have tried to reply when I have something to say.

For now its just a waiting game - waiting to see if this procedure in January finally starts helping her to get better, waiting for a court date for a settlement, and waiting waiting to see what happens with the possible medical/disability retirement scenario. All of these are intertwined but I think the first domino is the January procedure. The rest will naturally follow from there.

I will keep checking on this thread periodically but will definitely come back to provide an update after the procedure.
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:00 PM
 
2,446 posts, read 2,077,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
Well, I don't find that among women, not in general. In fact, I've never known any woman who didn't know how to cook and clean. But, for example, my mother's generation -- dad took care of all the finances. Good thing Mom died first. But even with my generation -- I have been absolutely astounded at how much widowed women don't know about money. I've known women who have had to sell their homes because they couldn't afford the mortgage payment anymore after their husband died. A lot of widows are not just at least at a loss for a while after their husbands die -- they are at a total loss, and a lot of them don't recover. What we read/see in organizations like AARP are not true for the vast majority of the 65+ today.

Among men -- it's been my experience that they know how to handle their money. But when the wife dies, the men tend to be at a loss socially. I see A LOT of widowed men who are lonely AND isolated. I can name 10 male neighbors right now who are both lonely and isolated, and they have been ever since their wife died.
Most of that isolation is self imposed -- but then they don't think they have the social skills to 'get out there' (and too often they really don't). The wife usually took care of the socializing.

I used to give seminars, to employees considering retirement, on how to do a budget at my union when I was working. Man or woman -- if you ask 100 people how many do a written monthly budget (and/or annual budget -- we need both), perhaps 25% will raise their hands (and I bet some of them lied LOL).

I did a budget with pencil, paper and calculator for 30 years. HUGE pain in the rear -- but I didn't think I had a choice (and I didn't). When I retired, I went to my community college and learned how to do MS Office. Now, for the past 10 years, I do both my monthly and annual budgets (and my projected budgets for future years) on Excel. Makes it MUCH easier. :-)

(MORE than you EVER wanted to know.)
Yes, you are right. Mainly more men than women
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,737 posts, read 4,750,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
I used to give seminars, to employees considering retirement, on how to do a budget at my union when I was working. Man or woman -- if you ask 100 people how many do a written monthly budget (and/or annual budget -- we need both), perhaps 25% will raise their hands (and I bet some of them lied LOL).

I did a budget with pencil, paper and calculator for 30 years. HUGE pain in the rear -- but I didn't think I had a choice (and I didn't). When I retired, I went to my community college and learned how to do MS Office. Now, for the past 10 years, I do both my monthly and annual budgets (and my projected budgets for future years) on Excel. Makes it MUCH easier. :-)
Yep, Excelís pretty easy to use once you get the hang of it.

Over 25 years, weíve never done budgeting. There are other ways to limit expenditures that work better for us. Maybe thatís true for some other people as well.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
Yep, Excelís pretty easy to use once you get the hang of it.

Over 25 years, weíve never done budgeting. There are other ways to limit expenditures that work better for us. Maybe thatís true for some other people as well.
There isn't any other way to handle our money. There simply isn't. However and also, budgeting isn't a matter of limiting expenditures (although I will admit that most people tend to think that budgeting means that we have to limit spending). A budget has nothing to do with limiting how we spend money. Budgeting tells us where our money is going. Budgeting means having a savings account (or not, if we so choose), so that we can meet an emergency without having to put it on a credit card (of course, if we don't have mind having a lot of credit card debt and the interest fees that come with it -- well, that's ok too, I guess). Budgeting means that after we've paid all our monthly expenses (on time), then, for a wild example, if we find you have $10,000 left over every month and we choose to blow it (on whatever we choose to blow it on), then you can do so, without having to put in on a credit card (or, hopefully not, paying some monthly bills and not paying others -- which frequently happens in this country).

Budget means knowing how much house you can afford. What kind of car you can afford. Whether or not we can send our kids to private school. Etc., etc., etc.

Budgeting is knowing whether or not we can afford to retire. I have a neighbor couple right now that retired at age 62. They really thought they could, even though they would have to pay a hefty monthly bill for medical insurance coverage for both of them. It's now five years later, since they retired, and they are in trouble. One of the reasons they are in trouble is because the wife broke her neck and then contacted MRSA in the hospital, then she broke her leg severely, and their medical bills are killing them. They never anticipated something like this happening (who does, really, when they've always been in excellent health and are still fairly young) and they didn't prepare (budget anything) for it.

For The US, this example is not rare: when I first did a budget (for me, my husband and my kids), I found out that I owed almost as much as our gross annual income, and we had to file for bankruptcy. We had three other young couples we were close with, and when we told them what was happening to us, they wanted to know how to do a budget. One of those three couples wound up having to file bankruptcy.

Budgeting means not spending $1200/yr. on Starbuck's Lattes (which I love) -- but I could if I wanted to. It certainly doesn't mean that I don't have Lattes -- it just means that I don't have them 5 mornings a week anymore because I choose not to do so. But I do spend almost $2700/yr. on cigarettes (yikes, right?!), because I really like to smoke and because I can afford to spend that money every year.

I had my budget for 2018 all in place. I did what I always did: I budgeted $1000 (cash) for my car upkeep. Except my car upkeep this year was well over $2000. And, because my head was up the proverbial place, I had to pay for my (future) cremation this year -- another $2000+ I hadn't budgeted for. Without going into a lot of detail, it threw my 2018 budget off and has also affected my 2019 budget, so I won't be taking the big cruise I planned on taking in 2019. I could still take the cruise -- I could put it on a credit card -- but I choose not to, because then it will throw my 2019 budget way off. Oh, I could also take the money out of savings, to pay for the cruise, but, again, I choose not to do so. (And as I write this post, I'm thinking that I may very well do just that -- take the money out of savings to take the cruise -- I mean, why not, right? At my age, it's not like I can plan on taking a cruise ten years from now. LOL But at least I have a choice -- and I won't come back from the cruise saddled with $4000 in credit card debt.)

I don't pay for long-term care insurance -- it's my choice not to do so. Also, I am not saving money to see me through a major illness like pancreatic cancer -- but it's my choice (and has been my choice for the last 40 years, because I learned a lot from being a Hospice volunteer for many years) to just die. I mean, I'm 70 years old -- do I really want to waste a lot of time and money trying to stay alive for a few more years? I'd rather give that money to a young mother who is fighting breast cancer.

Budgeting is about knowing where our money is going and being able to make the choices we want to make with our money, and without running up a lot of credit card debt. And I guarantee you -- if you don't do a monthly budget and an annual budget, one of these years soon, you'll be $5,000-$10,000 (or more) in debt and wondering how you got there (unless you've somehow managed to have a very healthy savings account/good investments).

I've heard a lot of excuses for not doing budgets. My two favorite ones of all time are: "Well, I don't run out of money by the end of the month, so I must be doing all right." The other one was a man standing in front of me, tapping his fingers on his temple, and saying, "It's all right up here." These statements are from mature adults, in their late 50s/early 60s, contemplating retirement in the near future. Well, I hope they do well in retirement but the odds are very good that they won't do well at all because they aren't doing well pre-retirement.

Budgeting isn't about limiting expenditures (which is really another way of saying "depriving myself"). It's about having/making choices. And as you can see from my car upkeep surprise and my unplanned cremation cost (I have no idea why I waited so long to purchase it), even I don't do everything right all the time. But I know, for a fact, that I am much better off than most (in my middle-class retirement bracket) because I have a monthly budget and an annual budget.

I just read an article today -- a study by the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection -- only 25% of current US retirees are having a good retirement (meaning that they can pay all their monthly bills, meet their medical expenses, save some, do a little traveling, etc,, etc.). Which is the same percentage of people who used to raise their hands in my budgeting seminars -- the ones who said that they did a budget. You think this is just some coincidence? I don't.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,737 posts, read 4,750,544 times
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You make the choices that suit you, which is as it should be.

Our choice is to not do budgeting. Iím afraid youíll just have to take my word for it that it works for us.

Live and let live, I always say.
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