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Old 12-12-2018, 03:52 AM
 
2,444 posts, read 2,073,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
it depends on the annuity . the highest paying spia's pay what they do because those who die pay for those who live .


you can buy a joint one that passes to a spouse but when the parties die the money goes in to the poo regardless of when l . those are mortality credits and they are why you could never pull from yourself what these pay out.

basically you need about 15 years today to get your money back , then you go on the insurers dime .


delaying ss is a better deal
So if I am reading this right, annuities are a gamble on longevity.
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:17 AM
 
Location: R.I.
979 posts, read 606,846 times
Reputation: 4248
Quote:
Originally Posted by FREE866 View Post
then it really won't matter anyway because I'm dead.....but barring a tragedy ( possible but statistically not probable) I will live to my mid to late 80s so wouldn't it make sense to plan for that time frame?
I think you are very wise to plan for the later years of retirement because for not all but many, retirement does not just happen between ages 62-70. And although many begin to slow down after 70 that does not necessarily mean their expenses will slow down also.

My job is working as an R.N. case manager in a VA primary care clinic. The geriatric specialty part of my clinic the age criteria for acceptance into this clinic is 80. Right now we have a waiting list to get in to the geri clinic because there are quite a few Vets that are in this age range. Most of these Vets have the alphabet soup list of chronic disease like COPD, CAD, CHF, DM, etc., and many also are dealing with the after effects of war related injuries that happened many years prior. And these Vets keep on trucking because all that is involved with the treatment of these chronic diseases has greatly advanced over the last 20+ years which is what is keeping these Vets alive. I just had an elderly Vet in my office yesterday that had an internal defibrillator placed several years ago, and when and if his heart goes into a deadly arrhythmia the defibrillator goes off and shocks him back into normal sinus rhythm. Without this device he likely would not be alive today. And BTW, the reason this Vet came to see me was not related to a health issue, he wanted to see if he could stop taking some of his meds because he was having a hard type affording his copays. This Vet did not have a service connected disability and was also not by much but his income was above copay exemption status. He like many Vets opted out of picking up Medicare Part B coverage along with the supplement that cover some medication costs thinking that the VA would pick up the tab. Well this is not the case for him so he has to pay a $9 copay per prescription and when you take 10+ prescription meds those copays certainly add up.

And those that think they can opt completely out of this medication healthcare machine believe me it is not that easy. The minute you show any signs of self neglect or cognitive decline the Dept. of Elderly Affairs swoops down and the next thing you know you are in some 3rd rate nursing home plunked down in the community room eating green jello on a Saturday night watching Lawrence Welk reruns. And more often than not is it a family member who makes the call to the DEA because they think you are unsafe living alone and they can't provide the care assistance and supervision you need. And when those family members get another call from the police informing them you have been in your 4th car accident in less than a year because you choose to continue to drive that is the straw that usually breaks the camel's back.

And if you think the above is sensationalism, these are many of the issues I help patients and their families deal with on almost a daily basis. But, if only there were a few extra $$ to help pay for in home assistance for meal prep, personal care, medication management, and someone to drive Miss or Mr. Daisy to where she/he needs to go so she/he won't drive themselves, transitioning into ALF and LTC care facilities can be significantly delayed or even completely avoided.

There are many reasons people choose to stop working before or at age 62. But those that do make that choice and to make that happen need to claim their lower Social Security check that will go on to fund most of their needs and not wants, and there is no $$ elsewhere growing that can be tapped into to fund what could be very expensive needs in their later years which if available can keep them home longer and more importantly not become a financial burden to their families then there is more to consider than just "breaking even".

Our nursing homes are filled to the brim with people in their late 80s and 90s, and although their bodies may be racked with chronic diseases many are still very cognitively intact and most of them will tell you they never thought they would live to see their 70th birthday.

Last edited by Nightengale212; 12-12-2018 at 04:31 AM..
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:04 AM
 
71,683 posts, read 71,801,099 times
Reputation: 49257
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperhobbs View Post
So if I am reading this right, annuities are a gamble on longevity.
sure , it is the opposite of life insurance . with life insurance you are betting you will die . with annuities you are betting you will live
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:14 AM
 
2,444 posts, read 2,073,760 times
Reputation: 5690
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
sure , it is the opposite of life insurance . with life insurance you are betting you will die . with annuities you are betting you will live
That makes a lot of sense. Everything is a gamble really. The stock market and the government not jacking with SS are prime examples.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,251 posts, read 8,543,297 times
Reputation: 35677
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Yes, if you're still alive and in relatively good health at 70. Many people who are 62 don't make it to 70 or in those 8 years, go from being relatively healthy, to unhealthy and not able to do very much. So it's a chance you take. There are no guarantees. It's not about wanting instant gratification. It's about being realistic and knowing you may be a very different person physically at 70 than you are at 62. Take some money now and know you will have it, or wait another 8 years and take a chance you may not ever see it and never have the freedom of being retired.
That assumes you have no money of "your own" to use for fun stuff without SS...and that when you're older you don't / won't need money for healthcare? Makes no sense to me that you want the lesser money "now" for fun and you're not worried that even though you think / know your health will be worse that the money won't be well-used for healthcare that will almost certainly not be 100% covered by Medicare.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:41 AM
 
71,683 posts, read 71,801,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Yes, if you're still alive and in relatively good health at 70. Many people who are 62 don't make it to 70 or in those 8 years, go from being relatively healthy, to unhealthy and not able to do very much. So it's a chance you take. There are no guarantees. It's not about wanting instant gratification. It's about being realistic and knowing you may be a very different person physically at 70 than you are at 62. Take some money now and know you will have it, or wait another 8 years and take a chance you may not ever see it and never have the freedom of being retired.
no one who can afford to delay should be seeing a difference in draw between taking ss early or delaying .

all that should change is the make up of that income will weight differently once ss kicks in .

it would not make any sense to delay ss if you could not keep the spending constant and had to wait 8 years to spend more .rather the draw is the full draw day1 . it will just shift to more ss money than your money if you delay .
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:09 AM
 
Location: RVA
2,172 posts, read 1,268,333 times
Reputation: 4485
Exactly right. But deciding whether you can afford to delay is both a mental exercise and a reality exercise. Planning to work until 70 is a dangerous gamble for some, not so at all for others.

People in general do not do well at all with financial math. Especially with inflation and healthcare costs. It almost Always takes a back seat to current comfort. As Nightingale212 mentioned above, many elderly in the ‘80s & 90s never thought they would be alive at that age. My inlaws were of that midset, (both passed away at 89), as is my father (who just had his second knee replaced, had a hernia operation, and is recovering from pneumonia that led to CHF. But there is nothing chronically wrong about anything he has besides arthritis. Hisnparents, who led a hard and unhealthy life, and grew up in Italy during both WWs lived to 90 & 96.

My FIL used to say all time he hoped he would hurry up and die. “The waiting is killing me!” He was tired of watching his savings drop. He was actually financially saavy most of his life, and he loved to warn the “kids” that they could never save too much. “In a million years I never thought everything would be this expensive!” was a favorite. “$1.50 for a cup of coffee! Crazy!”.

Heck, I remember as a kid, in the 60/70s, coffee in a restaurant was a quarter, forever. I worked at a popular ice cream restaurant and when in high school, when asked the cost of small, med & large cones, we replied “25, 35, 45” when asked. At the end of working there 2 years, it became “35,45,55” and we got a LOT of complaining from old people. Today, the same chain is $2.50, $3.25, and $4.00. Forty years ago I would have laughed at those prices. “That’s impossible. Who would pay those prices.” Well the answer is everyone that wants a cone.

I doubt I will be alive in 40 years, but 30 is a distinct possiblity. And I want to EASILY afford that $15 ice cream cone. Or buy that average $60,000 car. Or get my knee replaced.

It is too easy to stop working when it appears your expenses are well covered by SS and some savings, NOW. Your gut tells you you can make it. And you really don’t have a choice sometimes. Job is gone, health is poor, whatever. But when you do the math and project you could need a lot more but your gut says “looks like I have enough”, then you will go with your gut, almost every time. It is right there, a signature away for the taking. Free money. So OF COURSE, it is difficult to draw down on savings to delay for a future that “may never come”. It is FAR easier to save and invest for the same unknown future. But the math is exactly the same. It’s the mental exercise that is different and often difficult.

People don’t want to hear it. If you are retired at 62, or even 70 and barely making ends meet, you will have a whole lot of hurt ahead if you live until 90. The 20 years from 2019 to 2039 will be a lot more expensive than from even 1980 to 2000 were. Bet on it.
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:50 AM
 
1,983 posts, read 1,308,579 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
I don't think anyone regrets taking it at 62 when they are only 65 or 70 - they MIGHT regret it if they live to 80, 85, or 90! THAT'S when I want to hear back from all those taking it early but not many of them are online to tell us...so we hear a very one-sided conversation on the topic.
This is exactly right! I plan on waiting as long as possible "just in case" I live long and need it. I think thats the intention.

I don't get those who retire at 62 that are healthy and don't have a good chunk saved. You could live another 20-25 years. The clock is already ticking.
Things are just going to get more expensive.
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:57 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,252 posts, read 6,345,210 times
Reputation: 9856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale212 View Post
I think you are very wise to plan for the later years of retirement because for not all but many, retirement does not just happen between ages 62-70. And although many begin to slow down after 70 that does not necessarily mean their expenses will slow down also.

My job is working as an R.N. case manager in a VA primary care clinic. The geriatric specialty part of my clinic the age criteria for acceptance into this clinic is 80. Right now we have a waiting list to get in to the geri clinic because there are quite a few Vets that are in this age range. Most of these Vets have the alphabet soup list of chronic disease like COPD, CAD, CHF, DM, etc., and many also are dealing with the after effects of war related injuries that happened many years prior. And these Vets keep on trucking because all that is involved with the treatment of these chronic diseases has greatly advanced over the last 20+ years which is what is keeping these Vets alive. I just had an elderly Vet in my office yesterday that had an internal defibrillator placed several years ago, and when and if his heart goes into a deadly arrhythmia the defibrillator goes off and shocks him back into normal sinus rhythm. Without this device he likely would not be alive today. And BTW, the reason this Vet came to see me was not related to a health issue, he wanted to see if he could stop taking some of his meds because he was having a hard type affording his copays. This Vet did not have a service connected disability and was also not by much but his income was above copay exemption status. He like many Vets opted out of picking up Medicare Part B coverage along with the supplement that cover some medication costs thinking that the VA would pick up the tab. Well this is not the case for him so he has to pay a $9 copay per prescription and when you take 10+ prescription meds those copays certainly add up.

And those that think they can opt completely out of this medication healthcare machine believe me it is not that easy. The minute you show any signs of self neglect or cognitive decline the Dept. of Elderly Affairs swoops down and the next thing you know you are in some 3rd rate nursing home plunked down in the community room eating green jello on a Saturday night watching Lawrence Welk reruns. And more often than not is it a family member who makes the call to the DEA because they think you are unsafe living alone and they can't provide the care assistance and supervision you need. And when those family members get another call from the police informing them you have been in your 4th car accident in less than a year because you choose to continue to drive that is the straw that usually breaks the camel's back.

And if you think the above is sensationalism, these are many of the issues I help patients and their families deal with on almost a daily basis. But, if only there were a few extra $$ to help pay for in home assistance for meal prep, personal care, medication management, and someone to drive Miss or Mr. Daisy to where she/he needs to go so she/he won't drive themselves, transitioning into ALF and LTC care facilities can be significantly delayed or even completely avoided.

There are many reasons people choose to stop working before or at age 62. But those that do make that choice and to make that happen need to claim their lower Social Security check that will go on to fund most of their needs and not wants, and there is no $$ elsewhere growing that can be tapped into to fund what could be very expensive needs in their later years which if available can keep them home longer and more importantly not become a financial burden to their families then there is more to consider than just "breaking even".

Our nursing homes are filled to the brim with people in their late 80s and 90s, and although their bodies may be racked with chronic diseases many are still very cognitively intact and most of them will tell you they never thought they would live to see their 70th birthday.
I can’t rep you enough on this post. I just watched Bob Dole saluting Bush at his funeral, I remember he was so healthy, yet now he can’t even stand up without help. But his voice still sounds very reasonable when he offered what’s going on his head when he saluted Bush senior.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:04 AM
 
4,718 posts, read 10,322,159 times
Reputation: 2300
Mr. Dole is 95 years old. He is no young spring chicken anymore.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
I canít rep you enough on this post. I just watched Bob Dole saluting Bush at his funeral, I remember he was so healthy, yet now he canít even stand up without help. But his voice still sounds very reasonable when he offered whatís going on his head when he saluted Bush senior.
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