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Old 12-18-2018, 05:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
I never use the terms 'nursing home' and 'assisted living dwelling/apartment/room' interchangeably.

To me they are often very different types of facilities.

Assisted Living dwellings/apartments/rooms are often high-end - and out of reach financially for the majority of seniors.

Nursing homes include very low-end unappealing places.

"Fewer than 14 percent of Americans 75 and older occupy some form of senior housing today. Three-quarters of those over 50 say they would prefer not to move at all. And untold numbers of seniors who might need or want to enter an age-restricted or assisted-living community wonít be able to afford to do so; 30 percent of those 65 and older have an annual income below $23,000....."

above quote is from 'The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville'
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ritaville.html

There are assisted living facilities at all price points, not just for the "wealthy" or whatever better off demographic. Some accept Medicaid, others don't. https://www.payingforseniorcare.com/...ed-living.html


Equally not all nursing homes are "low-end unappealing places" either. Where did you get such ideas?




" Assisted living facilities were originally designed for people who were largely independent but required help bathing, eating or with other daily tasks. Unlike nursing homes, the facilities generally do not provide skilled medical care or therapy, and stays are not paid for by Medicare or Medicaid."
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/assist...ry?id=59892176


Main difference is that nursing homes are designed and required by law to provide round the clock skilled nursing care for patients who require. Assisted living OTOH is geared towards custodial care; that is persons who are otherwise active but require assistance with certain ADL. The industry has expanded (or rather pushing the boundaries) to include those with various stages of dementia.


Nursing homes are regulated by federal and local governments (licensed), and subject to higher scrutiny than assisted living facilities. The latter have nil federal oversight (unless they accept Medicaid), and often very weak state/local who are mainly responsible for regulating such places. There isn't one consistent set of statues on federal level that govern assisted living facilities, nor between each individual state.
https://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/...-nursing-home/




Investors and other money has flowed into assisted living/memory care facilities precisely because they lack the strict regulatory climate of nursing homes. This being said in both situations you have good and bad apples.


Nearly all assisted living facilities make it clear contractually if a resident needs skilled nursing/medical care they will be transferred to hospital or nursing home. Some facilities are linked to a nursing home (an other floor/part of building/campus), so those requiring such care will be moved there; others will be transferred elsewhere until such time (if ever) they meet standard of ALF care.


Indeed a couple in NYC (IIRC) sued their ALF (and lost, again IIRC) because one of them required skilled nursing care and the facility balked. This even though they had paid huge amount for their "upscale" AFL facility. This is same in Canada as well: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tmas-care-home


There are assisted living facilities run by various non-profits including religious orders as well.


Carmelite Sisters for The Aged and Infirm: Convents/Facilities


Religious Sisters Offer More Compassionate Care to the Elderly


https://assistedlivingtoday.com/blog...sisted-living/
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:11 PM
 
5,426 posts, read 3,446,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post

Equally not all nursing homes are "low-end unappealing places" either. Where did you get such ideas?
Your reading comprehension is not the best. I said "Nursing homes include low-end unappealing places."

Notice the word 'include'.

The word 'include' does not mean 'all nursing homes'.

What I said is true. There are nursing homes which are unappealing places.

Last edited by matisse12; 12-18-2018 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,540,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Warning - paywall.


can't just reply. It goes to a site begging that we send money to the wallled in streets journal


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-lon...ne-11544541134

Here's a new article from the WSJ about "aging alone." What do you pin that on? Late in life divorce? Lack of support from children/not having children? Widowed? How do you plan for aging alone or do you not anticipate it?

Looks like it might be interesting to read, that and another story. Geesh, it seems so basic too. I'm 66 now, and my house has been reminding me of how the heat situation has to be improved in winter. But I have been considering it and the AC side. It will be taken care of. And I've come to realize that while this place is in no way ideal, its all small things nobody has changed. No reason I can't. And as my income is considered 'low" it works well since I already figured on the order of other things to do. And as I'm someone who loves fixing things or more often learning how as an ideal time its got built in entertainment.


My best sort of people....for me at least, are here, just not here in Cushing here but those who have enough to do they don't try to 'run' someone else's life. Or maybe they are here. Since the earthquake damaged do much downtown they've rebuilt the Senior center and I may just check it out again. Bring some embroidery, and someone always looks at it and asks and usually says it looks hard or pretty or something. Or more crocheting.... I didn't really try before, maybe its time to.


But this idea I hear sometimes that children of older parents should all build extra room on the house so grandma and grandpa could live with family. What if grandma likes to watch tv until the wee hours, and gets up past noon? How does that effect meals? Does she get talked at like she's a child by her probably not real familiar daughter in law? How soon does she move out?


If you always liked being around people, being involved with the same things they were, joining in on the family plans so long as they act like proper elders, and so on . . . . . mabey it works. If the grandparents are used to doing things when they choose, like watching latenight movies or tv, or just go to bed late, are they told to 'mend their ways'? Sure wouldn't with me. I'm guessing that many older parents are not going to follow the rules and aren't going to stay.


I'd add in the intro to this section that it mentions a variety of reasons why aging parents might move in with the kids, but none why they might say Nooooooooo. Maybe kids may be there to help, but not take over. And kids (like my son's wife and family) have no clue about what I enjoy in a space, but a dictionary of 'what is proper' which is the only thing which matters. I won't tell you how to live if you try to badger me, if you won't tell me how your'd live my life ... if you insist, fair is fair.


Funny how people say your like a parent, or maybe further back. I'm not like Mom, but learned from her. She never said you were wasting your time, just never got around to 'it'. Dad would just argue about it until nobody wanted to hear. I am more Dad than Mom. But I know how to do the 'stare' too....


As a loner, I wonder if all loner's who get older just get more likely to disagree and argue since its so interesting than just ignoring them or never replying or reinforcing the stubborn with words sure to seal it tight.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,540,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyDancer View Post
Many seniors do not want to give up their homes and go to live with their children. See threads in Retirement/Caregiving forums for evidence of this.

Also, let's be honest, the burden of caring for elderly parents usually falls more heavily on women, who are now more likely to be in the workforce and don't have the time/resources (to the extent this may have been the case in the past) to be full-time unpaid caretakers.

I remember back when I was in high school, and my grandmother had had a stroke. She stayed in a nursing home for a month, and *insisted* on leaving. She was coherant and the therapist could come to her and she wasn't eating but hated the hospital food. When she was just out, she stayed with my aunt, and when they were going to be away she stayed with us for a while. She was herself, just as firm about how she would not let anyone help if she could do it. She never quit trying and when she died she could still do anything she could do sitting. And she watched tv with us and we'd go out once in a while.


She got set up at my Aunts, much closer to the hospital and other offices, and we'd just come out to visit. It was nice to sit down for dinner with the whole family. She could do things like stand with aide, but not well towards the end. She lived a few more years, still at my Aunt's where family and friends could visit. She was slowly going to fail, but until she was there, she had family and friends around her. She had only one wish,no hospital.


She died in her bed at home, in her sleep. A huge number of people she'd known through her life came to the funeral. Even my grandfather, who had not exactly been welcome came with his wife. His unexpected arrival was a major event in the family, as he and my grandmother hadn't spoken literally in years. (we can be stubborn about some things, this family) Mom kept in touch after that. He passed on a few years later, but was very ill before. I don't know if my Grandmother's choice would be it, but he rejoined at least some of the family.



As far as wanting to go and live with your kids, neither wanted to. My uncle apparently lived with my oldest cousin. They lived up in norcal in the town which burned this year, and my uncle was listed as a resident. Still working up the nerve to find them.


I myself am quite happy living alone, or that being alone from people. Don't tell the two cats and the two dogs about that. And nobody bothers me. I want more, but there's time. My great dream would be meeting some guy who really 'got' me and the chance for a relationship. I'd do fine with just good friends. Most of mine are guys.



I feel like I'm on this road, and we're heading out to unknown territory, and I'm not in a hurry, but know just where I want to find them. Online would do for a start. I mean people who go to sci fic conventions , and maybe groups of fans and who might help a fan who is desperate for a like mind friend get back towards home, where my friends used to be. Who loved arguing star trek and other universes and would love to feel like I was really Home.
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Old 12-20-2018, 04:03 PM
 
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Posted back at the time, but worth remembering: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/n...york-city.html


Sadly in many cases aging alone often means dying that way as well.
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Old 12-20-2018, 04:19 PM
 
20,547 posts, read 16,619,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
Your reading comprehension is not the best. I said "Nursing homes include low-end unappealing places."

Notice the word 'include'.

The word 'include' does not mean 'all nursing homes'.

What I said is true. There are nursing homes which are unappealing places.
Well you could say that about anything: "Hotels near Miami Beach include low end unappealing places"
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Old 12-20-2018, 04:38 PM
 
11,126 posts, read 8,534,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Posted back at the time, but worth remembering: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/n...york-city.html


Sadly in many cases aging alone often means dying that way as well.
What's wrong with that. Technically, most people die alone as other people don't die with them.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:15 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
6,562 posts, read 3,659,218 times
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"More than ever, Americans are aging alone."

Boomers, anyway, did everything in crowds from kindergarten on up through college, military, whatever...probably even nursing homes, now. We now have Elderhostel trips so we can parade around in foreign countries in groups of Boomers. Do you recall standing in line for polio vaccine? We had TB tests the same way. We hid under our desks in droves at the appointed time. We were joiners and it was normal to be part of some sort of group. My Boy Scout troop had over 100 kids going to summer camp -- where we did everything together. That's just how it was.

I, for one, am enjoying some peace and quiet and my independent existence. I live alone but have family and friends close enough where I can seek them out when I want.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:55 PM
 
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Since you're dead, you don't know for eternity that you so-called 'just now died alone' the second you do die and afterward, since you have no consciousness for the rest of eternity. So it makes no difference that you die alone, even though much is made of it in society - and way too much is made of it.

And I agree that everyone does die alone - no one is doing the dying for you or dying themselves along with you.

As for boomers having done "everything in crowds and groups", I don't see it that way at all. "We did everything together in groups in college and military" - what? I didn't. I'm sure those of you in the military, while in the military, did.

Aging alone has nothing to do with having done many things in "crowds or groups as boomers" - not for everyone anyway, not for me and not for many others.

Last edited by matisse12; 12-20-2018 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:34 PM
 
20,547 posts, read 16,619,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
"More than ever, Americans are aging alone."

Boomers, anyway, did everything in crowds from kindergarten on up through college, military, whatever...probably even nursing homes, now. We now have Elderhostel trips so we can parade around in foreign countries in groups of Boomers. Do you recall standing in line for polio vaccine? We had TB tests the same way. We hid under our desks in droves at the appointed time. We were joiners and it was normal to be part of some sort of group. My Boy Scout troop had over 100 kids going to summer camp -- where we did everything together. That's just how it was.

I, for one, am enjoying some peace and quiet and my independent existence. I live alone but have family and friends close enough where I can seek them out when I want.
Kids today still do all those things. Most kids today belong to dance troupes, many sports teams, and yes still scouts. They still hide under their desk as a group, but now they do it in a dark room in complete silence and itís called a lockdown drill.
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