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Old 12-13-2018, 10:24 AM
 
673 posts, read 2,027,922 times
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I could list quite a few people I know that are smart, have had good jobs, are educated, but loved spending money and keeping up with the Joneses, that have filed bankruptcy. It boggles the mind.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
2,431 posts, read 3,657,283 times
Reputation: 4758
My MIL has an eerily similar story.


She hired into GM in 1965 as an hourly employee sewing seat covers for cars. In 1993, when she was 55 years of age with 28 years of seniority, the Plant she worked at was permanently closed. Because she was so close to the 30 year point for a 30 & Out Retirement, she was offered and accepted a Grow Into Retirement package.

I don't know for sure what this package entailed. Three possible options are: they credited her 30 years of service and started her 30 & Out pension immediately; or they paid her some sort of stipend to supplement her unemployment check and then switched her to a 30 & Out pension two years later; or they calculated a 28 & Out pension amount for her. Regardless, she stopped working at age 55 when her Plant closed.

GM had, and likely still has, a provision in their retirement packages for people who retire prior to age 62. This provision is called the Early Retirement Supplement or ERS (IIRC) and pays the employees an additional amount every month equal to 98% or 99% of their estimated age 62 SS benefits. At age 62 this ERS monthly payment drops to zero, SS Benefits start, and the retires receive a few extra dollars each month because the SS benefits slightly exceed the ERS value. I worked at GM from 1974 through 2012 and was certain everyone knew this ERS was temporary. Every Pension Modeling activity an employee ran, or their Union Benefits Officer ran for them, would show this benefit dropping to zero when SS started!

All except my MIL.

She was convinced the total amount of the monthly check from GM/Fidelity was her pension, oblivious that the check stub detailed each month that the check total was comprised of Pension Amount and Early Retirement Supplement Amount. She was furious that GM arbitrarily reduced her 'pension' when SS started! She had lived the years from age 55 to age 62 in anticipation of a large increase in her monthly income when SS benefits started. Instead, she received a $5 to $10 per month increase.


And I believe my MIL dropped out of school in the 10th Grade, not so different from the subject of the article.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Denver area
157 posts, read 48,257 times
Reputation: 253
I have talked about this before on other forums. I really think there should be basic financial classes taught in high school; doesn't even have to be a full class. Just incorporate it into a math or civics class or something. Give the kids a 2 or 3 or 4 week exposure to the basics. In todays dwindling pensions environment everyone needs to know about the stock market, 401k's, 403b's, TSP, IRA's, etc and so on. And most importantly discuss the power of compounding interest!


Post financial crisis there are easier and easier ways to buy and sell stock w/out having to come up with large sums of money. So many think you need to be rich to get in on Wall St. Not true. You need a job with an income and an extra $50 bucks a month to start. Heck open an account at Stockpile or some other brokerage and you can get started w/ $10 bucks. Neither my son nor daughter has what one would call high earning employment at this time...but they both have IRA's working on their behalf. I made sure they opened them and contribute. One good thing I've noticed is more and more employers are automatically enrolling new employees in company 401k's. No more opt in; rather it's now opt-out. This should help somewhat going forward.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Northern panhandle WV
3,007 posts, read 2,167,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperhobbs View Post
You would think companies would not be able to do that. Should get some kind of pension for years of working. 29 years is way past the vesting period. Also, it's not like Lockheed Martin went out of business or is broke.
Lockheed Martin, started paying my BIL his pension while he was still employed there because of his age. so he got both till he did retire and now gets his full pension.
Also if this guys wife never worked she would still get up to half her husbands SS amount which in itself should be a decent amount.

There is something not write about that story.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
2,431 posts, read 3,657,283 times
Reputation: 4758
Quote:
Originally Posted by TattedCOdude View Post
I have talked about this before on other forums. I really think there should be basic financial classes taught in high school; doesn't even have to be a full class. Just incorporate it into a math or civics class or something. Give the kids a 2 or 3 or 4 week exposure to the basics. In todays dwindling pensions environment everyone needs to know about the stock market, 401k's, 403b's, TSP, IRA's, etc and so on. And most importantly discuss the power of compounding interest!

One of the most useful classes I ever had was "Personal Finance" which I took as a free elective while in college. The class was miserable because the Professor hated that engineering students such as myself where in his classroom, but the information gained was priceless!


I still have the textbook from 40 years ago. I have gotten rid of almost all of my engineering textbooks from the same era.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:28 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 569,034 times
Reputation: 4370
Man, even your old physics books???

How are YOU EVER going to be able to remember how to calculate Black-body Radiation when it comes time to determine total thermal load of the inside of a Silverado engine bonnet (sic English) after running your car on a dyno for 12 hours straight?

And don't tell me Google....that just makes you look smart.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
2,431 posts, read 3,657,283 times
Reputation: 4758
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganGreg View Post
Man, even your old physics books???

How are YOU EVER going to be able to remember how to calculate Black-body Radiation when it comes time to determine total thermal load of the inside of a Silverado engine bonnet (sic English) after running your car on a dyno for 12 hours straight?

And don't tell me Google....that just makes you look smart.


You mean the Biot-Savart Law? What makes you think I forgot that piece of excrutiating h*ll?

I had double the Heat Transfer classes due to my minor and actually LOVED it. Under-hood radiation is more of a Heat Transfer or Thermodynamics story problem.

Biot-Savart was for electromagnetic radiation, and identifying the measurable charge created in a coaxial wire on earth with a specific dielectric strength, due to a point charge in space of a specific Coulomb strength, located thousands of miles away.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:45 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 569,034 times
Reputation: 4370
Haha!

Why do memories of former 'Hells' stick with us so long when I can't even remember my ex-wives name???
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,498,921 times
Reputation: 15950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hefe View Post
My parents were barely educated, their grasp on economics & finances were minimal - my father, a Depression kid, just worked 2 jobs simultaneously his entire life as his "plan", one was a "good job" - it had a pension. That was his Ace in the Hole as he always told me growing up. I can imagine he would be in a similar position as the fellow in the news story if his company shut down after 29 years & he had to hustle with a series of low paying jobs while raising kids & paying bills & for his healthcare.

My mother hasn't the slightest grasp of anything relating to financial issues. It simply was never a part of her universe nor can she comprehend what stocks, mutual funds, markets, etc... are. She was a homemaker with barely an education. Thank god dad talked her into getting a low-end state job in middle age where she gets a small pension & health insurance after 10 years. Dad was street smart, mom hasn't a clue.

She has made what I think are unwise financial decisions since he died 25+ years ago but she can't understand it at all. I won't go into them but they are several. She simply has never been exposed to a world where you need to be more savvy than simply working hard at your job, go to church & keep a tidy house & then you'll be rewarded for doing the right thing in life (as she understood it coming of age). I could go on but the news story could easily be about my parents, or most of their friends of that era, who just manage to get by, some better than others, I understand their plight & I think anyone who judges them doesn't understand the path, & the world, they were a part of.
And in many quarters and segments of our society, entrepreneurship and capitalism were portrayed as inherently evil; the attitude softened in the boom years of the Eighties / Nineties -- but it still persists, particularly among a small minority of radical Left-leaning malcontents, some of whom spew at this site on a daily basis.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Denver area
157 posts, read 48,257 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
One of the most useful classes I ever had was "Personal Finance" which I took as a free elective while in college. The class was miserable because the Professor hated that engineering students such as myself where in his classroom, but the information gained was priceless!


I still have the textbook from 40 years ago. I have gotten rid of almost all of my engineering textbooks from the same era.
I cannot fathom any of my professors caring who took their class nor what the majors were as long as the tuition checks cleared. Did the guy feel that engineers do not meet the 'person' part of personal finance?
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