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Old 05-08-2019, 10:03 AM
 
11,523 posts, read 14,604,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYgal1542 View Post
Have you considered the fact that many who cannot afford elder care had things happen that were beyond their control??
It sounds like you blame them.
Right. It's definitely beyond our control. All sorts of situations can happen that even if you have "money," you can easily go broke.

Long term insurance is very high and affording CNA's at 20/hour to come in your home is not cheap. I think companion care is a bit cheaper, but they don't do any personal care, just errands and housekeeping and the like.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Also, there's no guarantee the child will by then be in any shape to care for the aging parent themselves.

My grandmother is 83, my mom is 61, and my aunt is 58. My aunt and I do the majority of the shopping, help around the house, etc., for my grandmother. My mom's health isn't good - my aunt's is somewhat better, but my grandmother was in far better shape at ~60 than they are around the same age.

All the caregiving and such is really wearing my aunt out. My aunt is stuck caring for her mom and her grandson. To an extent, my grandmother's unwillingness to recognize her own limitations is causing more work for other people.
That's a good point. The elders I see are in their mid 90's and older. Their"kids" are in their 70's. Some look older than they do and have their own problems they must give priority to.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,365,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanny Goat View Post
That's a good point. The elders I see are in their mid 90's and older. Their"kids" are in their 70's. Some look older than they do and have their own problems they must give priority to.
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I see this too where I live. A few of the 90 year olds are in better shape than their 70 year old kids.

There are just so many variables and so many assumptions made on this topic.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I see this too where I live. A few of the 90 year olds are in better shape than their 70 year old kids.

There are just so many variables and so many assumptions made on this topic.
Right. People have preconceived ideas about how life should or will go, but it seldom does.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Center City
7,528 posts, read 10,217,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkypeanut View Post
Don't know what you mean by this - but regardless, we disagree that's all.
We do more than simply disagree.

Re-read our interchanges. Think on it. And I’m sure you’ll understand.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:24 PM
 
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I agree that EVERYONE should do their best to plan for their own care when they are older, especially for the assisted living and total care eventualities. There are a number of reasons that this is more important now than it probably was in the past. The two most obvious pertinent facts seem to be that people are living much longer and that most had much fewer children than past generations. Add in that there are almost no females* who do not work now and that families are often living far apart. Children who live close by may be able and willing to "help out" their parents. But when they need regular daily care it is often impossible for children to do it all, and far too many parents get very stubborn about going into a facility (even those who can easily afford it).

*they were traditionally the caregivers
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Old 05-09-2019, 03:21 AM
 
Location: Central Florida
1,319 posts, read 1,076,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post

As far as I am concerned... If you are childless AND do not have the finances for elder care, you screwed up your finances royally.
I am a 62 year old childless not by choice female who was widowed at age 44, and at 45 was diagnosed with a type of cancer although I survived it thankfully, the type of cancer that is was has a fairly high potential for a recurrence of a secondary cancer which exempts me from being able to obtain LTCi insurance. With these two issues and not that I would have ever wanted to burden children if I had had them with my elder care needs, I have known for a very long time that I would need to self fund for any care needs I would require as I aged.

This may sound pretty simple, but when you take a look at the cost of care across the spectrum this can be pretty daunting even for those who have maintained a decent income and saving strategy over the course of their working lives. And since as part of my job I coordinate this type of care for others I am all too familiar with the costs. At present Medicare hourly rates for CNA services are $25/hr which most need minimally 6 hours a week for personal care and if time remains a little light house keeping will be provided. So for that basic care you are looking at a cost of $8,000+/yr. A decent ALF in my area runs around $4,600/mo and a nursing home $8,000-$10,000/mo.

So, a single individual with no LTCi who at retirement wanted to have enough money in some account to fully self fund 5 years of nursing home care that account would need to have $500,000+ in it. I don't know about you, but as someone who has earned a low six figure income for a number of years now along with having a mortgage free home for nearly 30 years who is careful with spending I will not be retiring with a $500,000 bank account just reserved for LTC. But, I am one of those ever dwindling individuals who will retire with a defined pension and that along with my ability to delay taking my Social Security at age 70, those two income streams will cover around 75% of my LTC costs so I will only need to fund the remaining 25%. That remaining 25% comes out to around $25,000+/year x 5 years = $125,000-$150,000 which for many is still a very large sum of money to have on hand and reserve only for LTC.

Not sure what you consider "screwing up" , but there are many individuals who worked hard in decent paying jobs, lived modest lives, paid theirs bills, saved as best they could encountering no "screw ups", and despite this will still not have the funds needed to cover the worst case LTC scenario because it is outrageously expensive for single or married middle class John and Jane Q public to afford.
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Old 05-09-2019, 03:29 AM
 
Location: NNJ
15,050 posts, read 10,033,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYgal1542 View Post
Have you considered the fact that many who cannot afford elder care had things happen that were beyond their control??
It sounds like you blame them.
We are talking the vast majority... not arguing some small group or corner cases.

As far as I'm concerned, most people sitting in financial instability AT ANY AGE is mostly their own doing. 1 in 3 people in this country have less than $5k in savings in retirement... you aren't going to convince me that 1 in 3 people in this country have had something happen to them that was so beyond their control to put them in personal financial crisis.
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Old 05-09-2019, 03:38 AM
 
Location: NNJ
15,050 posts, read 10,033,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale212 View Post
I am a 62 year old childless not by choice female who was widowed at age 44, and at 45 was diagnosed with a type of cancer although I survived it thankfully, the type of cancer that is was has a fairly high potential for a recurrence of a secondary cancer which exempts me from being able to obtain LTCi insurance. With these two issues and not that I would have ever wanted to burden children if I had had them with my elder care needs, I have known for a very long time that I would need to self fund for any care needs I would require as I aged.
.
Again.. sorry for your situation...

But we are talking "millions of childless people over 65" which implies the general population not specific groups of people under unfortunate circumstances.

As I said, 1 in 3 people in the US do not have $5k in savings.... More than 70% of the US population is living paycheck to paycheck.... You can't tell me that ALL those people are in similar situations.

I'm from a poor background... most of my friends are considered very low income. I'm one of the few that had the opportunity to go on to college and make a better life. My mortgage payment on a 15 year is still less than a weeks pay. We are 5 person family squeezed into a just under 1000sqft home with 2 small bedrooms in a almost 100 year old home. A home I bought 6 months after I graduated from college. Two of my kids are in a converted dining room for a bed room. We only have 1 bathroom. We financially planned way in advanced for two children; only two children. We ended up having twins for our second birth with expensive medical issues. We didn't whine and blame our circumstances as beyond our control and give up... we adjusted... cut down spending even more... certain things just won't happen in my life (travel).. oh well. We don't go on expensive vacations, buy expensive things (ok.. a few..), drive only used vehicles, monitor what we spend very closely. I do pay a bit for our location... because access to good schools (which I didn't have in early childhood) is important too me and worth spending on. Yes... I we have a plan to get the heck out of here once the kids are off to college.. to freakin expensive.

We save/invest aggressively.

Quite a few neighbors talk to us like we are the poor ones. Heck, they keep trying to donate clothing to us as if we can't afford clothing for our children. I appreciate them... nice people... but we end up turning away or donating them again. What they don't realize, that despite their expensive cars and 2500+ sqft homes, I am most likely take home a bigger paycheck. I do this... despite living in a high COL area.

Retirement? Well... I've lived my entire life in very modestly, I don't plan on changing it when I retire. Probably, sell everything buy an all season mobile home and travel this country of ours since I won't be able to afford international travel. If it wasn't for awful medical insurance costs, I'd probably be retiring way before retirement age... So if I do require elderly care, I should still have money left over and maybe some to pass to my grandchildren.

Our general population has a very skewed sense of reasonable lifestyle that is perpetuated in almost everything around us... then the general population cries when they don't have enough money.

If you search my posts, I have a relative liberal stance socially. I do believe in safety nets... yes.. lots of people have unfortunate circumstances that the blame doesn't rest on the individual. BUT.. those same "safety nets" can be easily abused by people who are unable to take responsibility for themselves and see their overspending as an "unfortunate circumstance" beyond their control. It is those same people that abuse the welfare system and the like, that rally those against safety nets/welfare to bring their cause to legislature.

Last edited by usayit; 05-09-2019 at 04:03 AM..
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,365,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Again.. sorry for your situation...

But we are talking "millions of childless people over 65" which implies the general population not specific groups of people under unfortunate circumstances.

As I said, 1 in 3 people in the US do not have $5k in savings.... More than 70% of the US population is living paycheck to paycheck.... You can't tell me that ALL those people are in similar situations.

I'm from a poor background... most of my friends are considered very low income. I'm one of the few that had the opportunity to go on to college and make a better life. My mortgage payment on a 15 year is still less than a weeks pay. We are 5 person family squeezed into a just under 1000sqft home with 2 small bedrooms in a almost 100 year old home. A home I bought 6 months after I graduated from college. Two of my kids are in a converted dining room for a bed room. We only have 1 bathroom. We financially planned way in advanced for two children; only two children. We ended up having twins for our second birth with expensive medical issues. We didn't whine and blame our circumstances as beyond our control and give up... we adjusted... cut down spending even more... certain things just won't happen in my life (travel).. oh well. We don't go on expensive vacations, buy expensive things (ok.. a few..), drive only used vehicles, monitor what we spend very closely. I do pay a bit for our location... because access to good schools (which I didn't have in early childhood) is important too me and worth spending on. Yes... I we have a plan to get the heck out of here once the kids are off to college.. to freakin expensive.

We save/invest aggressively.



Quite a few neighbors talk to us like we are the poor ones. Heck, they keep trying to donate clothing to us as if we can't afford clothing for our children. I appreciate them... nice people... but we end up turning away or donating them again. What they don't realize, that despite their expensive cars and 2500+ sqft homes, I am most likely take home a bigger paycheck. I do this... despite living in a high COL area.

Retirement? Well... I've lived my entire life in very modestly, I don't plan on changing it when I retire. Probably, sell everything buy an all season mobile home and travel this country of ours since I won't be able to afford international travel. If it wasn't for awful medical insurance costs, I'd probably be retiring way before retirement age... So if I do require elderly care, I should still have money left over and maybe some to pass to my grandchildren.

Our general population has a very skewed sense of reasonable lifestyle that is perpetuated in almost everything around us... then the general population cries when they don't have enough money.

If you search my posts, I have a relative liberal stance socially. I do believe in safety nets... yes.. lots of people have unfortunate circumstances that the blame doesn't rest on the individual. BUT.. those same "safety nets" can be easily abused by people who are unable to take responsibility for themselves and see their overspending as an "unfortunate circumstance" beyond their control. It is those same people that abuse the welfare system and the like, that rally those against safety nets/welfare to bring their cause to legislature.
The article does not say "millions of childless people." It says "over a million childless people."

The actual study says there is "mixed evidence." The Guardian article is a bit slanted toward an absolute conclusion whereas the original study is not.


https://awwoc.org/2019/03/27/ageing-...alities-issue/
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