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Old 06-04-2019, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,699 posts, read 4,060,618 times
Reputation: 1260

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
similar...except for the TV (We didn't have one, but when we had access to one... the kids had to pay $1/ hr for PBS and $2/ network. Since they had no 'passive income' i.e. 'allowance' , they chose to minimize their time on 'passive' entertainment(?). Library was popular

Our kids cost peanuts (OB-GYN / Delivery was no bargain with a lot of complications / potentially life threatening... but such is life... deal with it) We moved 3 weeks before birth, so had to pay OB-GYN 2x on that one.

They (farm kids) were capable of affording their own stuff by age 12. (they had Roth IRAs and trading stocks by age 12).
Bought their own cars and insurance, clothes... college... and lived within our $100/ month food budget (for entire family). We hosted elderly neighbors frequently for dinner and shared all our 'extra'. $$ and food.

They survived, and were not a financial burden to this single income, factory hourly wage family.

Retirement came as planned at age 49, then I joined my kids in attending college.
Different colleges, all STEM degrees, all graduated Magna (many thanks to no TV and each paying our own way, via hard work).

I can't wait for the 'senior rate' so I can return to college. Kids figured out how to get their advanced degrees funded. I expect we will all be in college again some day. (No burden / consequence to retirement).

My parents saved a bundle by kicking me out at age 15, I paid for my own braces, when I could afford it (age 30+)

You lived within your means, just like my boss whose son just graduated from Stanford (Summa *** laude) going to Harvard med school. He was sent through private school from kindergarten, starting from $30k/year to $50k/year by the time he graduated high school. They took 4 weeks of foreign travel every summer, the kid is a polyglot fluent in 4 languages. I could say anecdotally he did things right, but no, just different ways of raising kids. If your kids are destined for great things, chances are they will get there regardless of income level or adversity faced.


Now if your child is disabled or special needs, there is so much that having additional resources will provide for a better outcome than otherwise.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:54 AM
 
1,622 posts, read 557,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I think that's high. Now if you include college, then sure..
Well, that's the thing. IMHO there should be no "if" about it anymore. Nowadays a college degree is just as necessary as a high school diploma was for our generation. In other words, if you wanted a job with any kind of chance of advancement, our generation needed at least a high school diploma.

Our parents' "minimum education requirement" was often no more than grade school. Those who got more years of education (or went into the military during the war) did better than those who didn't. My mom never went past grade 5 in her small Pennsylvania town. She also never was able to get any job better than being a waitress or a store clerk in her entire life. Part of that was because she was a woman but the other part was because she simply wasn't qualified to do anything else.

I'm not saying that if today's newborns don't end up with a college degree in their hand 20 years from now they will be doomed to failure, but just like our parents wanted to equip us with at least the basic necessary education requirement (a high school diploma) for adulthood, today's parents have to take the exact same view of a college diploma for THEIR children.

I can remember when a 2-year college degree was "acceptable" but not anymore. Look at any classified ad section and you will see that the minimum ed requirement for anything but a minimum age or manual labor job is now a Bachelors. By the time today's baby has a child it may well have accelerated to a Graduate degree. And I don't mean just the ones that have always required one, like doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc. I am talking about anything other than an entry level office job.

I don't think any new parent today can NOT include college in their list of Necessary Child Rearing Expenses and still be considered a responsible parent.

Whether the child ends up wanting or choosing to go to college is another matter. But isn't it more responsible to plan on the basis that they will, rather than that they won't?

Last edited by BBCjunkie; 06-04-2019 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:06 AM
 
1,622 posts, read 557,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwalkr View Post
If your kids are destined for great things, chances are they will get there regardless of income level or adversity faced.
Not sure I agree that any child is "destined" for "great things" unless they happen to possess an extraordinary talent in a particular skill or skill set. For example, people like Stephen Hawking or Michael Jordan or Pavarotti or Picasso or Georgia O'Keefe, etc. People like that WILL rise to the top regardless of their circumstances.

But most people are not like that. Not even many. More like a fortunate few. The rest of us, even those with talent, usually need some kind(s) of break or advantage or at least opportunity to advance from Average to Above Average to One of the Best.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,834 posts, read 14,341,548 times
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I beg to differ about kids not costing money. They do. What kids require is expensive, even if you try to be economical. If two parents work, child care is a draining expense. Once the kid is in school, she needs fees for this and that. There are costs associated with scouting, field trips, day camps. Kids these days are expected to appear on the first day of school with $50 or $60 worth of supplies each. If one or more of the kids shows talent, then you get involved with programs and competitions that have fees, involve expensive lessons and possibly involve large purchases.

And expenses continue until the kid is out on his own.

But I love my kids and grandkids. I would not do over my life without my kids. But, they were expensive.

As to later pregnancies, a family member has had a child at age 40. Pregnancy had problems, but kid turned out perfect. Years later, that child is more than fine. I do agree about genetic counseling for when both parents are older than 40. Neither parent should be smokers and should be in good health.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:40 AM
 
25,971 posts, read 32,962,923 times
Reputation: 32148
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I beg to differ about kids not costing money. They do. What kids require is expensive, even if you try to be economical. If two parents work, child care is a draining expense. Once the kid is in school, she needs fees for this and that. There are costs associated with scouting, field trips, day camps. Kids these days are expected to appear on the first day of school with $50 or $60 worth of supplies each. If one or more of the kids shows talent, then you get involved with programs and competitions that have fees, involve expensive lessons and possibly involve large purchases.

And expenses continue until the kid is out on his own.

But I love my kids and grandkids. I would not do over my life without my kids. But, they were expensive.

As to later pregnancies, a family member has had a child at age 40. Pregnancy had problems, but kid turned out perfect. Years later, that child is more than fine. I do agree about genetic counseling for when both parents are older than 40. Neither parent should be smokers and should be in good health.
I was a single parent and paid child care. No help from the ex. I had a good job, but certainly not an extravagant salary.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,155 posts, read 11,754,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I was a single parent and paid child care. No help from the ex. I had a good job, but certainly not an extravagant salary.
I am also a single parent. When my son was an infant, his childcare was significantly more expensive than the mortgage on my condo, just outside of Boston. And he went to a center that was in the working class town next to mine, so it was significantly less expensive than if I had used the center that was in the building next to my office downtown, that some of my co-workers used. Toddler room was less, so that was about the same as my mortgage. Then we moved to Denver, where cost of living is lower - except, oddly enough, childcare here is significantly more expensive relative to the general cost of living. I made it work, but yeah, it wasn't cheap.

And I've chosen to stay polite and refrain from saying what I really think about the asinine "mothers are 'supposed' to stay home" comments.
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:29 PM
 
255 posts, read 64,766 times
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Many good jobs in the medical field only require a 2 year associate degree. People that don’t want to go to college can get apprenticeships in the trades and make very good money.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,699 posts, read 4,060,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
Many good jobs in the medical field only require a 2 year associate degree. People that donít want to go to college can get apprenticeships in the trades and make very good money.

The problem is kids and their families don't career plan early on to make that decision and just figure they will make the choice once in college. Nowadays it's a huge financial burden if ultimately your career goal doesn't require a college degree. I know way too many philosophy and psych majors working retail and service industry.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:20 PM
 
1,622 posts, read 557,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
Once the kid is in school, she needs fees for this and that. There are costs associated with scouting, field trips, day camps. Kids these days are expected to appear on the first day of school with $50 or $60 worth of supplies each. If one or more of the kids shows talent, then you get involved with programs and competitions that have fees, involve expensive lessons and possibly involve large purchases.
This is so true. When we were in school (even high school) kids typically went with their parents to the local Woolworths or whatever sometime in mid August and bought a few of those black and white notebooks, some #2 pencils and a ballpoint pen. Then on the first day our various teachers gave us a list of things to get (like X number of spiral notebooks, ring binder with dividers, etc) before the next class or before next Monday and the stores would be a bit of a zoo in between. If you were taking math you probably had to buy stuff like a protractor, a t-square, one of those things shaped like a D (yeah I hated math, LOL) if you didn't have them already, and maybe a slide rule if you were taking something Really Advanced like calculus. Heck, we weren't even allowed to bring a calculator to school during the late 1960s!

Out of curiosity I just googled the Field Trip prices in the school district that my son went to in the 80s (high school) and my granddaughter will be attending eventually (my parents paid little or nothing for field trips I went on back in the day). The prices depend on the duration of the field trip, start to finish:

If using school buses within school hours (9:30 am - 1:30 pm): 1 hr $62, 2 hrs $125, 3 hrs $188, 4 hours $250. Plus fractions of hours: 15 mins $16, 30 mins $32, 45 mins $47

If using non-school buses within school hours: 2 hrs (minimum charge) $145, 3 hrs $218, 4 hrs $290. Overtime fee $36 per 30 mins. If a student cancels less than an hour before the start of the trip there is a $145 cancellation fee.

If using non-school buses outside of school hours: There is a 4-hour minimum charge if if trip is shorter. 4 hrs (actual or minimum) $415, 5 hrs $517, 6 hrs $621, 10 hours (such as an overnight) $1035. Plus an Overtime Fee of $55 per 30 minutes.

Our part of the USA pays some of the highest school taxes in the nation and so these fees aren't the result of a district that's starved for Federal funds or on austerity or anything. It's just a reflection of what normal school activities can cost nowadays.

When I was in high school we went on a field trip to Dinosaur State Park which is about 3 hours from where I grew up. So between getting there, being there, and getting back (we thought it was SOOO cool that we rode in actual buses instead of school buses for that one, lol) it was 8 hours at least. I think my parents had to pay something like $10 or $12 for me to go on that one in 1966 (because it didn't use school buses) and they gave me a few dollars along with the lunch and snacks we were all advised to bring. Nowadays that same trip would cost them about $700.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,699 posts, read 4,060,618 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBCjunkie View Post
This is so true. When we were in school (even high school) kids typically went with their parents to the local Woolworths or whatever sometime in mid August and bought a few of those black and white notebooks, some #2 pencils and a ballpoint pen. Then on the first day our various teachers gave us a list of things to get (like X number of spiral notebooks, ring binder with dividers, etc) before the next class or before next Monday and the stores would be a bit of a zoo in between. If you were taking math you probably had to buy stuff like a protractor, a t-square, one of those things shaped like a D (yeah I hated math, LOL) if you didn't have them already, and maybe a slide rule if you were taking something Really Advanced like calculus. Heck, we weren't even allowed to bring a calculator to school during the late 1960s!

Out of curiosity I just googled the Field Trip prices in the school district that my son went to in the 80s (high school) and my granddaughter will be attending eventually (my parents paid little or nothing for field trips I went on back in the day). The prices depend on the duration of the field trip, start to finish:

If using school buses within school hours (9:30 am - 1:30 pm): 1 hr $62, 2 hrs $125, 3 hrs $188, 4 hours $250. Plus fractions of hours: 15 mins $16, 30 mins $32, 45 mins $47

If using non-school buses within school hours: 2 hrs (minimum charge) $145, 3 hrs $218, 4 hrs $290. Overtime fee $36 per 30 mins. If a student cancels less than an hour before the start of the trip there is a $145 cancellation fee.

If using non-school buses outside of school hours: There is a 4-hour minimum charge if if trip is shorter. 4 hrs (actual or minimum) $415, 5 hrs $517, 6 hrs $621, 10 hours (such as an overnight) $1035. Plus an Overtime Fee of $55 per 30 minutes.

Our part of the USA pays some of the highest school taxes in the nation and so these fees aren't the result of a district that's starved for Federal funds or on austerity or anything. It's just a reflection of what normal school activities can cost nowadays.

When I was in high school we went on a field trip to Dinosaur State Park which is about 3 hours from where I grew up. So between getting there, being there, and getting back (we thought it was SOOO cool that we rode in actual buses instead of school buses for that one, lol) it was 8 hours at least. I think my parents had to pay something like $10 or $12 for me to go on that one in 1966 (because it didn't use school buses) and they gave me a few dollars along with the lunch and snacks we were all advised to bring. Nowadays that same trip would cost them about $700.

May be more expensive now but back in our days we hiked up the hill in 3 feet snow drifts just to get to school. And a protractor is shaped like a D, not sure if they use those any more.
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