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Old 06-15-2019, 12:21 PM
 
1,637 posts, read 754,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
To the bolded: I do believe there are people on the Retirement forum (like anywhere else in life) who have "foreclosed early," and I would not expect them to be drawn to this thread for obvious reasons.

I don't know how to answer the allegation about "my expectations," other than to say they are not expectations, but observations. As I said, I have observed others who have chosen not to pursue self-development - and some of these people were seemingly quite content. I do judge because of my own personal beliefs (as we all have) - mine is that we are not just randomly on Earth - that there is some "reason" - I have interpreted the "reason" to have to do with self-growth (as well as helping others, which is another issue).

Obviously, if someone does not have such beliefs, there is no incentive to do work on one's self or become more self-aware. It's an individual choice and involves sovereignty and free will. I am just curious about it, personally, because it is so opposite of my point-of-view and I would also be bored to tears. But I "get" that these people are not bored and it is fine for them. I do think their "inaction" results in a worse environment on the Earth, so that is probably my strongest criticism, but there are other things, as well. When you have little self-awareness, raising children results in stifling the children when they could also be expanding (and maybe that is just for the 18 years they are in the care of the parents - I am not sure what the long-term effects might be).
And your "observations" have led you to "conclusions" which are your opinion – as well as negative judgment of others whom you perceive to not be like yourself – on the [One] Path of Correct Self-Development [another perception].

So, let's see: "These [early foreclosed] people" live boring and unexamined lives that you would never want. "These people" harm the earth with their obliviousness. "These people" stifle their children's development.

Haven't I read some of your threads about unhappiness with your daughters? Unhappiness with relatives? Unhappiness with neighbors?

I'd say they are not living up to your "expectations," wouldn't you?
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:44 PM
 
1,694 posts, read 590,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
I do judge because of my own personal beliefs (as we all have) - mine is that we are not just randomly on Earth - that there is some "reason" - I have interpreted the "reason" to have to do with self-growth (as well as helping others, which is another issue).

Obviously, if someone does not have such beliefs, there is no incentive to do work on one's self or become more self-aware.
With all due respect, I don't agree with the second sentence. As an atheist I don't subscribe to the theory that human beings, either individually or as a species, are here for any "reason" .... other than random biological chance, that is. A person does not have to be either religious or "spiritual" (whatever that buzzword actually means) in order to be introspective or altruistic.

IMHO the mere fact of one's existence does, at minimum, impose an internal obligation to "do no harm" (to borrow a phrase from Hippocrates), i.e., to not be a bad/destructive human being. How much further any given person takes that obligation is, I believe, more a function of their individual personality and life circumstances than anything else. For example, if a person's daily life is a struggle to survive (either financially or culturally) that isn't likely to leave much time or energy for introspection leading to "self actualization" (another buzzword that society could probably do without, LOL.)
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:00 PM
 
Location: planet earth
4,939 posts, read 1,882,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBCjunkie View Post
With all due respect, I don't agree with the second sentence. As an atheist I don't subscribe to the theory that human beings, either individually or as a species, are here for any "reason" .... other than random biological chance, that is. A person does not have to be either religious or "spiritual" (whatever that buzzword actually means) in order to be introspective or altruistic.

IMHO the mere fact of one's existence does, at minimum, impose an internal obligation to "do no harm" (to borrow a phrase from Hippocrates), i.e., to not be a bad/destructive human being. How much further any given person takes that obligation is, I believe, more a function of their individual personality and life circumstances than anything else. For example, if a person's daily life is a struggle to survive (either financially or culturally) that isn't likely to leave much time or energy for introspection leading to "self actualization" (another buzzword that society could probably do without, LOL.)
I wasn't assuming anyone would "agree" with my world view - I just stated what my motivation is with regards to this subject. It's very personal to me and my outlook on life.

I respect your beliefs and your example of someone in a survival mode not focusing on "self-actualization" I am also in agreement with - the concept is for people who 1) Have the interest or motivation to pursue personal growth and 2) Have the time/ability through life circumstances to think about things, grow, become more conscious, etc., etc.

To the people saying I am judgmental and am not perfect human being living a perfect life, and therefore should not be discussing this subject . . . thanks for the lol's
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:05 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,397 posts, read 6,404,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
Are you familiar with the concept of people discussing theories?

Obviously, everyone comes from their own perspective, point-of-view - that's a given and it would be impossible not to.

Judgment/discernment is not a bad thing.

Ever heard of Myers-Briggs - lots of the population has "judging" for a primary influence - and the rest use it in a more minor way, but it's always being used - otherwise you would not know what kind of clothes to wear for the weather, even.

If people like you had their way, there would be no discussion of anything, and probably no need for any kind of Internet forum.
This is not a discussion. You pretend it to be so you can inject your own judgement.
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:16 PM
 
Location: planet earth
4,939 posts, read 1,882,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
This is not a discussion. You pretend it to be so you can inject your own judgement.
Hilarious that you and others are judging me for judging. Whenever people are very defensive and at the same time attacking others, you have to wonder what has triggered them. What is it about this subject is so offensive to some people . . . the idea that lack of self-developedment can be "judged" as being not an optimum way to live or deciding for oneself that self-development is crock and not wanting others to even mention it?
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,397 posts, read 6,404,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
Hilarious that you and others are judging me for judging. Whenever people are very defensive and at the same time attacking others, you have to wonder what has triggered them. What is it about this subject is so offensive to some people . . . the idea that lack of self-developedment can be "judged" as being not an optimum way to live or deciding for oneself that self-development is crock and not wanting others to even mention it?
Look at your OP post. You used provocative term, that’s not for people who seek enlightenment. That’s for people who seek a fight, not a discussion. Honestly, I didn’t care for this thread until you post more rubbish. It’s not self-development at all. It’s under a thinly veiled of self-development so you can judge other people.
You do not know what’s going inside anybody’s head, so how do you know they do or not do have any self-development.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:59 PM
 
Location: planet earth
4,939 posts, read 1,882,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Look at your OP post. You used provocative term, that’s not for people who seek enlightenment. That’s for people who seek a fight, not a discussion. Honestly, I didn’t care for this thread until you post more rubbish. It’s not self-development at all. It’s under a thinly veiled of self-development so you can judge other people.
You do not know what’s going inside anybody’s head, so how do you know they do or not do have any self-development.
You sound very hostile, but I will explain what I was after in starting this thread - just for the record.

I did make a mistake in using "You" in the title - I should not have done that, because that is what seems to have made some people defensive and even angry (which I find bizarre, but whatever).

The term "Foreclosed early" is an insult - and it was taught to me in a psychology class as a less desirable state. The theory was that human beings "should" develop to their full potential. No one in my entire class objected to this theory as being insulting or unreasonable. It is just one theory about people and about self-development taught in some psychology classes.

As I have stated previously, I have observed several people who I would put in the category of "foreclosing early," and I am interested and curious about this. I am interested in self-development, so I have a bias and don't understand the motivations of people who are not interested (have the time and resources, not in survival mode, but have no interest in self-development).

That was my motivation for posting - the curiosity about the people who "foreclose early," because many do - that cannot be argued. My "judging" them is noticing, observing, and wondering what is up with them. I honestly have no idea. I thought perhaps others could offer some insight or ideas about why some people elect not to grow in awareness.

The people who are so defensive, I don't "get" what they are defending - other than an allegation that I am "arrogant" for asking the question or the way I asked the question. To me, it honestly does not matter HOW the question was asked. People should be able to think about theories and not personalties talking about theories that they "don't like" for whatever reason.

Care to share why this rankles YOU? What is it in YOU that is so disturbed by thinking I might be judgmental? Or that I had the nerve to ask about this?

Last edited by nobodysbusiness; 06-15-2019 at 05:00 PM..
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
31,803 posts, read 20,074,097 times
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I think what the OP is missing is that self "work" is to be determined by the individual for their own observation on improvement.

The OP is not turning inward but using self "work" to judge the accomplishments of others, which completely defeats the concepts.

I also think their is a misread on what the OP takes as defensiveness.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:36 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,247 posts, read 2,991,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
I think what the OP is missing is that self "work" is to be determined by the individual for their own observation on improvement.

The OP is not turning inward but using self "work" to judge the accomplishments of others, which completely defeats the concepts.

I also think their is a misread on what the OP takes as defensiveness.
Agree. If the individual is doing it, it is somehow worthy work. If someone other than the individual is doing it, well, something else entirely. "Observation" is a euphemism.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:44 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,397 posts, read 6,404,610 times
Reputation: 9975
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
You sound very hostile, but I will explain what I was after in starting this thread - just for the record.

I did make a mistake in using "You" in the title - I should not have done that, because that is what seems to have made some people defensive and even angry (which I find bizarre, but whatever).

The term "Foreclosed early" is an insult - and it was taught to me in a psychology class as a less desirable state. The theory was that human beings "should" develop to their full potential. No one in my entire class objected to this theory as being insulting or unreasonable. It is just one theory about people and about self-development taught in some psychology classes.

As I have stated previously, I have observed several people who I would put in the category of "foreclosing early," and I am interested and curious about this. I am interested in self-development, so I have a bias and don't understand the motivations of people who are not interested (have the time and resources, not in survival mode, but have no interest in self-development).

That was my motivation for posting - the curiosity about the people who "foreclose early," because many do - that cannot be argued. My "judging" them is noticing, observing, and wondering what is up with them. I honestly have no idea. I thought perhaps others could offer some insight or ideas about why people who elect not to grow in awareness.

The people who are so defensive, I don't "get" what they are defending - other than an allegation that I am "arrogant" for asking the question or the way I asked the question. To me, it honestly does not matter HOW the question was asked. People should be able to think about theories and not personalties talking about theories that they "don't like" for whatever reason.

Care to share why this rankles YOU? What is it in YOU that is so disturbed by thinking I might be judgmental? Or that I had the nerve to ask about this?
Actually, I hate psychology so I wonít be able to answer your question. What rankles me is your attitude in one of your posts. In general, I donít really care one way or the other. If people donít want to develop, thatís their choice. We believe in choices donít we? Again, itís none of our business as in your screen name. No nobodyís business.
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