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Old 07-04-2019, 11:18 PM
 
Location: planet earth
4,805 posts, read 1,824,401 times
Reputation: 10665

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
If they refuse to take the basic steps to take care of themselves, they have no right to expect anyone else to take care of them. Applying for basic services they're eligible for has to be a pre-condition for receiving any relative's help, whether yours or anyone else's. I'm not even sure an application is necessary, for the voc rehab office. I think you can just call and make an appointment, and show up.

But I take your point. They probably wouldn't follow through with any other freebies, like a psych evaluation, and whatever else. But if that's the case, why should any family members help them? They need to take at least a shred of initiative to help themselves.
Yes. The whole thing is that they are not logical - so you can't really have a logical conversation with them.

It's mind-boggling.

 
Old 07-05-2019, 03:20 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
9,661 posts, read 18,848,119 times
Reputation: 8537
I don't suppose it's possible for you to take an extended vacation anywhere? Sometimes the only answer is to just not be there when they call. They sound quite toxic, from an earlier post you'd mentioned their parents weren't there for them, maybe that was the parents route to survival?

It might be helpful to have somewhere else lined up for them to go to just in case they do show up at your door. Some facility that will help them. If you have the phone, address, etc., of the facility and already know they will take the person in, if that person shows up at your door - have a kind neighbor/taxi/uber or someone else take them there. Make pre-arrangements so if it needs to happen, it can happen right away and you don't even have to let them in the door.
 
Old 07-05-2019, 03:24 AM
 
401 posts, read 71,604 times
Reputation: 553
Hello and sorry to hear about your dilemma!


I can relate as I have been used on many occasions and hope I have learned to listen to myself...


You mentioned a couple things that stand out:


The first is that they will not sign up for programs... and of course, one must realize they might make an appointment, get some piece of paper in hand and try and use that to get in the end, "what" they "want" from you, probably move in and maybe have you wait hand and foot on them...


I was going to say that you might evaluate what kind of person they are, putting the addiction aside, moral character-wise, is there anything there?


You mentioned they themselves say they are a great "actor," there's a red flag right there, someone I knew had once commented how they were a great con-man, and I just brushed it aside as an offhand comment, this person was indeed the biggest user and loser I had ever had the misfortune to come across. So as the famous quote says: "When someone tells us who they are, we should probably take their word for it." (paraphrased)


So putting myself in your shoes: here we have a person who is a self-admitted "manipulator" as I hear some kids these days say with pride, and someone who is not willing to help themselves to boot.


Those are glaring red flags.


And you are not "their last and only hope," there are indeed programs, and these stand far better chance of actually making a difference than you probably could.


It's only a nice, caring person who finds themselves in this kind of quandary to begin with, that will always be to your credit, but sometimes we go in with the best of intensions and end up being dragged into the mire along with them, then we are "both in the ditch."


Good luck with this and best wishes for you and the young person!


Thx

Last edited by Thx-1138; 07-05-2019 at 04:00 AM..
 
Old 07-05-2019, 03:42 AM
 
401 posts, read 71,604 times
Reputation: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz View Post
I don't suppose it's possible for you to take an extended vacation anywhere? Sometimes the only answer is to just not be there when they call. They sound quite toxic, from an earlier post you'd mentioned their parents weren't there for them, maybe that was the parents route to survival?

It might be helpful to have somewhere else lined up for them to go to just in case they do show up at your door. Some facility that will help them. If you have the phone, address, etc., of the facility and already know they will take the person in, if that person shows up at your door - have a kind neighbor/taxi/uber or someone else take them there. Make pre-arrangements so if it needs to happen, it can happen right away and you don't even have to let them in the door.

LOL! ^


I used to have people coming over, just wanting to "hang out," so much so that I would volunteer for overtime at work (paid of course) then stop on my way home and have a leisurely dinner some place, then perhaps take in a movie, then on weekends I'd park my car over on the next street and I'm just not home.


Also, if someone caught me by surprise and they are knocking on my door, I have my coat and keys ready and I am "just leaving," sorry, (what a "coincidence" I have to leave just as you showed up...")


Some have said develop illnesses of your own, that might be an angle.


One thing I would be careful about, say going on vacation... watch out, if they know you are not home they might come by with a friend and rob the place...


This happened to friends of mine, they went on vacation and the estranged daughter broke in with her boyfriend and stole a rather expensive doll collection she had...


But indeed, it might take some creative thinking here and perhaps some Academy Award winning acting on the part of the OP for a change... fight fire with fire.


I know it is dreadful having to live in deceit, even understandable like this, but IMO the offender doesn't really have anything coming in the first place...


Of course, you know them best OP, I'm mostly talking from my own personal experiences and regrets and hindsight here.


Thx
 
Old 07-05-2019, 03:58 AM
 
Location: R.I.
970 posts, read 602,748 times
Reputation: 4165
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
and then some have been discharged, late at night in their hospital gown (just recently, the guy was in a wheel chair), in any kind of weather. If it is as you explained, why would that happen?

More often than not when you see ^ which I see fairly often coming an going from work it is often because these patients signed out of the hospital against medical advise. Once these patients are out of the woods during their acute withdrawal phase, outpatient or inpatient rehab/detox is the next step, but many of these patients don't want to pursue that which can't be forced. Sadly all most of the patients want is out to look for their next fix or drink. And if they are in a hospital gown it is because the clothes they came into the hospital with were likely tossed out as a result of being saturated with bodily waste possibly infectious.
 
Old 07-05-2019, 04:34 AM
 
11,118 posts, read 8,523,617 times
Reputation: 28059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
The world is full of people who cope and dope, using a variety of substances. By far the most common addiction is alcohol, but nobody calls alcoholics junkies. You will find addicts holding jobs, coaching little league teams and running for political office. Some people are narcotics addicts because they have to be, some just keep it on the down low and don't let it ruin their lives.
Alcoholics are called drunks, lushes, etc
 
Old 07-05-2019, 05:30 AM
 
Location: northern New England
2,435 posts, read 1,057,100 times
Reputation: 9480
As the posters on another forum (etiquette) say, don't JADE - justify, argue, defend, explain. Just repeat, "I'm sorry, I can't help you" --- "That won't be possible" -- "I can't help you since you won't help yourself".


What would this person do if you weren't around? Whatever it is, that is what they should NOW do.
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Old 07-05-2019, 06:20 AM
 
58 posts, read 9,857 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaofan View Post
What can you do? You can say no and keep saying no. Any offer of help of any kind will be seen and used as a means to manipulate you further. Just keep telling them no. They will eventually give up and find someone else to exploit.

Another vote for this post. Keeping it direct, simple, and to the point.
 
Old 07-05-2019, 07:54 AM
 
4,791 posts, read 11,966,331 times
Reputation: 3453
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
Yes - it escalated yesterday - the person was hysterical - and I am never prepared.

The first thread was "How to Say 'No"" - but this one is specific to the issue of old women being expected to caregive . . . there is an expectation that if you are female you MUST open your doors to whomever needs care in your family, regardless of why they got into whatever dire condition they are in!

AND . . . I am a senior . . . there are issues related to my age - I don't have the stamina I once had - there are also laws that protect seniors ("Elder Abuse" - don't know if they apply if someone just keeps badgering you and showing up in crisis . . .) - I think it is probably a very important, silent issue that many old women might be facing.

I know I belong to a FB group for people dealing with family members with substance abuse problems, and 99% of them are mothers and grandmothers - no dads or grandpas in sight.

So it's a female issue, and in many cases, an elder issue.

Just wanted to introduce that aspect.

Edited to add: It is very rude to call people "junkies," and in this case, that specific term does not apply.
There is NOT an expectation that if you are a female that you must open your doors to whomever needs care in your family. That is just in your head. This person knows you are soft and will continue to work that angle.
 
Old 07-05-2019, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
4,243 posts, read 2,083,976 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
Yes. The whole thing is that they are not logical - so you can't really have a logical conversation with them.

It's mind-boggling.
Why do you keep using neutral pronouns with this person? Is this person gender-neutral?
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