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Old 07-27-2019, 01:18 PM
 
6,382 posts, read 4,806,935 times
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It might seem that putting in effort does not yield success. That feeling often comes from a gross underestimation of the time and effort involved in achieving that success. I see this all the time with all sorts of activities. People buy tennis rackets or golf clubs and invest some effort and then expect success. Or perhaps they buy an expensive camera or a good guitar. Most will follow Ohio-peasant's advice and decide the effort needed is not worth the result. Others will just not have an idea of the effort needed.

I am a great believer in the 10,000 hour rule. That is the time it will take to learn to play a sport or an instrument well. Even that time and effort does not mean you will be a champion just that you will approach your individual level of ability.

Lots of people, in fact the vast majority, seem to find very little worth their effort. It begins with school where they learn little because they waste time without putting in the effort. The same with their jobs and career. They put in the time for the paycheck but don't push to do well, to grow skills and to advance. Many people drift through life. Since this is a retirement forum, I can add that when they reach retirement nothing changes. They are happy to stop working but have no ambition to excel at anything else. They don't seem to have much ability to set goals and decide what they want to accomplish with the rest of their lives.
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Old 07-27-2019, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Buffalo, NY
1,347 posts, read 1,224,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Native View Post
Lower your standards and you'll be happy the rest of you life.
"Good Enough" is enough.
Engineers and designers often are warned that "better is the enemy of good" - too many changes can ruin what was a good design in the first place.
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Old 07-27-2019, 02:42 PM
 
892 posts, read 200,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
Engineers and designers often are warned that "better is the enemy of good" - too many changes can ruin what was a good design in the first place.
Engineers fix things until they break.
You might be an engineer if you try to fix a $5 radio.
What do engineers use for birth control?
Spoiler
Their personalities.
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Old 07-27-2019, 03:41 PM
 
6,389 posts, read 3,632,597 times
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I dunno. I figure the opposite.

Why bother even putting in an effort unless I'm going to do it well?
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Old 07-27-2019, 04:01 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,390 posts, read 3,066,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnelian View Post
The old cliche is that the more you put into something, the more you get out of it.
Teachers, counselors, coaches, everyone says that. It is not always true, I found.
Whether the cliche is true or not probably depends on how someone defines "more".
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Old 07-27-2019, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Illinois
273 posts, read 161,585 times
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after they retire, or even before, some people have no goals, projects, ambition. That's fine for them, not for me. I keep trying. Sometimes I succeed. My writing has been published and read, even in other nations..
"Follow your dreams" is a pop slogan " If at first you don't succeed, try try again, etc.."


some people do extremely well, become stars in their field, without much training, and the world is filled with talented individuals who cannot get what they desire.
The saying: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" sometimes is true.

. No one cares, so why try? Don't like giving up.
Too many roads that went nowhere, especially job opportunities.
(I did not mean that looking for a marriage partner is a project, but it felt like a job.) I gave up on that.
but if you have not had this experience, its hard to understand. People tell me be thankful for what you have. Nice car, good suburb, good health, etc. Okay, accept that the status quo is the best you can do? Well, maybe it is. Is it?
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:12 PM
 
1,760 posts, read 617,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAhippo View Post
sometimes the journey is more important than the goal.
I guess it could be for some, but I myself have never found it so.

That said, patience and fortitude have never been my strong suits. Especially patience, LOL
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Old 07-27-2019, 10:04 PM
 
Location: USA
1,054 posts, read 413,421 times
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Work smarter.

Or, as my old circuits professor would say, “If you’re getting more power out of it than you’re putting into it, come see me. We’re gonna make a fortune.”
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:18 PM
 
8,033 posts, read 5,108,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
It might seem that putting in effort does not yield success. That feeling often comes from a gross underestimation of the time and effort involved in achieving that success. ... Most will follow Ohio-peasant's advice and decide the effort needed is not worth the result. ...

I am a great believer in the 10,000 hour rule. ...
My belief is diametrically the opposite. Sure, talented people won’t truly reach their potential without sufficient training and practice. 10,000 hours may indeed be the right amount. The lazy ones, who devote only 2000 hours or whatever, won’t fulfill their potential. But of those who do devote 10,000 hours, how many will have wasted their times? There are many aspirants, but how many have the wherewithal to make the training worthwhile? And what of the opportunity cost – namely, the alternative, which might have instead been pursued during those 10,000 hours?

I find that best results often come by making an insolently minimal effort, just to dash something off, before continuing to the next thing. It is shocking how often the initial guess, untutored and minimally-considered, turns out to be eerily accurate… so much so, that sedulously-studied analysis ends up being somewhere between perfunctory and actually quite wrong. I am also amazed how often it turns out to be the case, that wantonly ignoring a problem, is easier and more successful in the long run, than attempting a solution, let alone a detail-oriented and pedantic one.

It is indeed a tragedy, when the talented-few fail to adequately challenge themselves, or through arrogance believe themselves to be above the mere humdrum of dedicated-practice. But this is for the talented few. As for the rest….

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Lots of people, in fact the vast majority, seem to find very little worth their effort. ...
Lots of people, in fact the vast majority, have precious little to contribute, whether from talent or brilliance, and indeed, are essentially meat-machines, and unreliable ones at that. I'm probably one of them.

Last edited by ohio_peasant; 07-27-2019 at 11:57 PM..
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:34 AM
 
6,382 posts, read 4,806,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post

..........
Lots of people, in fact the vast majority, have precious little to contribute, whether from talent or brilliance, and indeed, are essentially meat-machines, and unreliable ones at that. I'm probably one of them.
I do agree that few expend much effort to excel at anything.

The vast majority do not expend the effort needed to excel but that does not mean they have nothing to contribute. Sadly we see a very entitled and lazy attitude from many Americans. The attitude seems to start at an early age. We give out trophies for participating in sports. Kids don't extend themselves in school. Learning is laughed at and ridiculed. No one wants to be a nerd or egghead or live in an ivory tower. Instead we believe in common sense.

Hardly anyone tries to lead a life based on rational thought. Instead we are the most religious nation in the Western world. People love to join groups and adopt group think. We also love rooting for the local teams. My local paper is literally half sports news. Many enthusiastically root for their local pro teams even though they players are recruited nationally. Taxpayers even have to support the construction and operation of the mega arenas.

When it comes to a career, it seems to be like attending school. Most make only a minimal effort.

I disagree that it has to be this way. The fact that few expend much effort does not mean that they would have little success if they did.

I also disagree about success coming with little effort. I do photography. Modern cameras do a great job but that does not mean it is easy to master the skills of visual communication. I also spend a lot of time on traditional recurve archery. No one picks that up and does well without lots and lots of practice and training. My wife is a poet. I think she has a talent for it that I just don't have. Of course, she has a passion and has devoted hours and hours over a period of years, now decades.
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