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Old Yesterday, 09:14 AM
 
2,614 posts, read 5,322,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
"Given that the stem cell-treated knee was no better than the control-treated knee — both were dramatically better than before the study began — the researchers say the stem cells' effectiveness remains somewhat uninterpretable."

"Somewhat uninterpretable" means the placebo effect. It does not mean stem cell injections improve arthritic knees. That still hasn't been proven.

You can have a placebo effect from a procedure in which no placebo is actually used. All you have to do is believe the treatment will work. The mind has a powerful influence on the body and can sometimes trick you into believing an ineffective treatment has real therapeutic results.

Of course this will make the rounds of social media and more people will line up for fake treatments.

Irresponsible of the Mayo Clinic to promote this, IMO.
It's not irresponsible to report the results of a carefully done study. Indeed, scientific ethics requires it.

Presumably there is an actual publication somewhere that reports the details. It should have been cited.

By the way, to ME the report says, in language not completely forthright, "either there is something magical going on or this is all placebo effect."

Bad editing too

"Our findings can be interrupted in ways that we now need to test"

 
Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,889 posts, read 4,828,192 times
Reputation: 28845
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
It seems that the study was inconclusive because they didn't include any control subjects who should have received only saline injections in BOTH knees, because now they are thinking it might have helped both knees systemically, or was it just placebo effect??? I'm surprised that they overlooked this possibility in the design of the study from such a reputable hospital.
^This.

Irresponsible to trumpet the results as a breakthrough when the study proved nothing. I would hate to think Mayo published this just to troll for new patients.

Mayo Clinic Arizona is just a couple miles down the road from me. I had been considering using them for my care. Now I wonder.
 
Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM
 
2,756 posts, read 1,568,619 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by rational1 View Post
It's not irresponsible to report the results of a carefully done study. Indeed, scientific ethics requires it.
True, but this was not a peer reviewed report. It was a PR press release

Quote:
Originally Posted by rational1 View Post
Presumably there is an actual publication somewhere that reports the details. It should have been cited.
Current PR and popular journalism ethics do not require a link or reference to the actual publication. And I've never seen one. Partly this is because the press releases are often written based on pre-publication results, such as a manuscript not yet accepted by a proper scientific journal
 
Old Yesterday, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,904 posts, read 1,420,626 times
Reputation: 10179
So I tried it in 2016 on my left knee. Wasted 5500 bucks, did not do anything.
So my standard answer to this question is. If the clinic host "dinners and seminars" like they are selling timeshares, skip it. Also remember that many of them are not regulated so do your homework.

I am currently working to prolong my right knee, I will not be trying stem cell on it. I am sticking to conventional treatment.

Last edited by eliza61nyc; Yesterday at 10:40 AM..
 
Old Yesterday, 10:28 AM
 
2,756 posts, read 1,568,619 times
Reputation: 2659
^ I don't think you'll be on some clinic's website promoting their cure!
 
Old Yesterday, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,904 posts, read 1,420,626 times
Reputation: 10179
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
^ I don't think you'll be on some clinic's website promoting their cure!
lol, I do try not to discredit them also. I do hate though when we use the professional athletes as the poster child for these procedures. Professional athletes imo are in a totally different situation. I do think there the science has a lot of potential and I definitely would like to see some serious fact based university studies done on it.

I also hate how you have to really jump through hoops with these clinics to get answers to your questions. I went through a regenexx procedure and at times it was more a sales pitch than informational. Now I had physical therapy after each one of my injections so not sure why folks think it is a magical cure. if you have arthritis it does not CURE arthritis.

but again, I'm not blowing another almost 7 grand for my right knee.
 
Old Yesterday, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Southern California
24,116 posts, read 8,415,892 times
Reputation: 15693
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
^This.

Irresponsible to trumpet the results as a breakthrough when the study proved nothing. I would hate to think Mayo published this just to troll for new patients.

Mayo Clinic Arizona is just a couple miles down the road from me. I had been considering using them for my care. Now I wonder.
I guess the Cleveland Clinic and Mayo got together and chose to troll for patients!!! Get real, this Regenerative Medicine works. And I've posted what I believe and others believe what is holding it back from insurance coverage.

And during my morning stretches this morning which I do religiously, I realized I can bend my problem knee even deeper this morning...the HGH gel I've been using now is doing a good job. And contrary to what so many say, cartilage can't regrow, I don't believe I could bend this poor knee as I'm able to if no cartilage...and the fact that I'm bending it deeper tells me the HGH is doing it's job....reversing damage.

Last edited by jaminhealth; Yesterday at 11:38 AM..
 
Old Yesterday, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,889 posts, read 4,828,192 times
Reputation: 28845
Quote:
Originally Posted by rational1 View Post
"Our findings can be interrupted in ways that we now need to test"
I think they meant "interpreted" instead of interrupted. If so, I agree.

I wonder if we'll hear back if their findings show there was no net benefit to pts when the placebo effect is accounted for.
 
Old Yesterday, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
22,106 posts, read 14,519,093 times
Reputation: 31217
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
"Given that the stem cell-treated knee was no better than the control-treated knee — both were dramatically better than before the study began — the researchers say the stem cells' effectiveness remains somewhat uninterpretable."

"Somewhat uninterpretable" means the placebo effect. It does not mean stem cell injections improve arthritic knees. That still hasn't been proven.

You can have a placebo effect from a procedure in which no placebo is actually used. All you have to do is believe the treatment will work. The mind has a powerful influence on the body and can sometimes trick you into believing an ineffective treatment has real therapeutic results.

Of course this will make the rounds of social media and more people will line up for fake treatments.

Irresponsible of the Mayo Clinic to promote this, IMO.
That is how I read it too. Possible placebo effect. At least the treatment is being studied.

But I searched for this; Mayo is hardly promoting it.
 
Old Yesterday, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Southern California
24,116 posts, read 8,415,892 times
Reputation: 15693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
If they can regrow lost cartilage, fine. I have yet to see that issue resolved. That's usually what happens with arthritis.

We wasted thousands on Prolo treatments. Now I have joint replacements.
And I've seen you post on your pain issues.
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