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Old Today, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Tucson Arizona
3,957 posts, read 1,683,747 times
Reputation: 10360

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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
Mayo Clinic uses stem cell therapy to treat arthritis in knee - Mayo Clinic

I started a new thread about stem cell treatments for knees because another thread about knee replacement kept getting sidetracked. This article is short. People who got stem cell injections in one knee had relief in both knees! Subjects got injections in both knees, but did not know which knee got the stem cells.

Anyway, this short article is fascinating.

If anyone here has had stem cell injections in a joint, please share.
If both knees really improved from an injection in just one, it seems like an injection anywhere would help all joints.

 
Old Today, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,888 posts, read 4,828,192 times
Reputation: 28838
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
That is how I read it too. Possible placebo effect. At least the treatment is being studied.

But I searched for this; Mayo is hardly promoting it.
Eh...potato, potahto.

Yes, it's good someone is studying it, even if one wonders at their methodology.

If stem cell injections are irrefutably proven to help arthritic knees, backed by several independent peer-reviewed studies, I'll be the first to fork over the cash. Right now there are disreputable so-called "stem cell clinics" giving injections (some of which are tainted) for just about every malady under the sun.
 
Old Today, 03:36 PM
 
2,756 posts, read 1,568,619 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
Eh...potato, potahto.

Yes, it's good someone is studying it, even if one wonders at their methodology.

If stem cell injections are irrefutably proven to help arthritic knees, backed by several independent peer-reviewed studies, I'll be the first to fork over the cash. Right now there are disreputable so-called "stem cell clinics" giving injections (some of which are tainted) for just about every malady under the sun.
As scientific knowledge of stem cells has increased, and yes, I follow the literature, but not closely, it's become increasingly clear that simplisticly injecting random populations of stem cells, as most of these clinics do, will not be successful, and exposes patients to harm. Consider that stem cells can make many kinds of cells and tissue, so how would injecting stem cells into a joint give you what you want? That's a focus of research, for example, but not with humans, yet.

Regenerative medicine gets lots of excitement because it's potential is truly exciting. We only need to look at other animals with wonderful powers to regenerate - slice certain kinds of worms in half, and each half grows a new half. But we're a long way from worms, or lizards that can re-grow tails. So we study how they do it in hopes we can somehow replicate that with humans.

But let's talk about what does often work: steroid and hyaluronic acid injections. Neither is a permanent solution, and steroids have long term negative effects if over-used, but both have been shown in clinical trials to be effective. Of course, these treatments are also relatively inexpensive, and not big money makers for a medical practice. So the more "financially focused" medical practices will not advertise these injections and not promote them. Insurers like them, though, because they work, and are not budget busting.
 
Old Today, 04:26 PM
 
228 posts, read 192,643 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
I just find the fact that there have been no vigorously designed, peer reviewed clinical studies to show that stem cells can heal knee (or other joint) damage. If someone can point me to one, I'd love to see it.

This short article also doesn't state how the patients' improvement was observed. It doesn't mention pre- and post treatment imaging or the degree of improvement, other than the vague word "greatly improved". I'd like to see an abstract of this study to see the methodology because this short, poorly written article leaves us with no explicit conclusions.
Some of us prefer the scientific method......

Many want to believe what they want..

To each their own
 
Old Today, 04:27 PM
 
228 posts, read 192,643 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
Eh...potato, potahto.

Yes, it's good someone is studying it, even if one wonders at their methodology.

If stem cell injections are irrefutably proven to help arthritic knees, backed by several independent peer-reviewed studies, I'll be the first to fork over the cash. Right now there are disreputable so-called "stem cell clinics" giving injections (some of which are tainted) for just about every malady under the sun.
Me too!
 
Old Today, 04:28 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,789 posts, read 7,085,846 times
Reputation: 14379
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
I guess the Cleveland Clinic and Mayo got together and chose to troll for patients!!! Get real, this Regenerative Medicine works. And I've posted what I believe and others believe what is holding it back from insurance coverage.

And during my morning stretches this morning which I do religiously, I realized I can bend my problem knee even deeper this morning...the HGH gel I've been using now is doing a good job. And contrary to what so many say, cartilage can't regrow, I don't believe I could bend this poor knee as I'm able to if no cartilage...and the fact that I'm bending it deeper tells me the HGH is doing it's job....reversing damage.
Human growth hormone (HGH) is NOT stem cells. I'm glad you perceive improvement in your knees from taking the HGH ( and whatever else in your arsenal of "supps",) but it's not, and has nothing to do with stem cell therapy.
Neither does "prolotherapy"( injections of dilute sugar water) or even injections of PRP ( platelet rich therapy).

I believe there is a great deal of potential in the use of human stem cells ( which are immature cells capable of growing into many types of cells), in the repair and regeneration of many types of tissues, but the science is in its infancy and results are unpredictable. This is why insurance doesn't cover stem cell therapy and legitimate medical providers don't endorse it without reservation, not for the selfish and nefarious reasons you opine.

https://medlineplus.gov/stemcells.html
 
Old Today, 04:30 PM
 
228 posts, read 192,643 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
As scientific knowledge of stem cells has increased, and yes, I follow the literature, but not closely, it's become increasingly clear that simplisticly injecting random populations of stem cells, as most of these clinics do, will not be successful, and exposes patients to harm. Consider that stem cells can make many kinds of cells and tissue, so how would injecting stem cells into a joint give you what you want? That's a focus of research, for example, but not with humans, yet.

Regenerative medicine gets lots of excitement because it's potential is truly exciting. We only need to look at other animals with wonderful powers to regenerate - slice certain kinds of worms in half, and each half grows a new half. But we're a long way from worms, or lizards that can re-grow tails. So we study how they do it in hopes we can somehow replicate that with humans.

But let's talk about what does often work: steroid and hyaluronic acid injections. Neither is a permanent solution, and steroids have long term negative effects if over-used, but both have been shown in clinical trials to be effective. Of course, these treatments are also relatively inexpensive, and not big money makers for a medical practice. So the more "financially focused" medical practices will not advertise these injections and not promote them. Insurers like them, though, because they work, and are not budget busting.
Agreed...both keep me from a knee replacement
 
Old Today, 04:41 PM
 
228 posts, read 192,643 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
lol, I do try not to discredit them also. I do hate though when we use the professional athletes as the poster child for these procedures. Professional athletes imo are in a totally different situation. I do think there the science has a lot of potential and I definitely would like to see some serious fact based university studies done on it.

I also hate how you have to really jump through hoops with these clinics to get answers to your questions. I went through a regenexx procedure and at times it was more a sales pitch than informational. Now I had physical therapy after each one of my injections so not sure why folks think it is a magical cure. if you have arthritis it does not CURE arthritis.

but again, I'm not blowing another almost 7 grand for my right knee.
The truth about athletes is that if they are highly paid, they will do most anything to get back in the game....this usually includes PT for many many hours per day, plus personal trainers as well..

Football players have more innate strength than any of us will ever have...they also know their playing career and big money can be not that many years....they can afford all this training, treatments..and yes, pain control...

They are not a good category to pimp any treatment
 
Old Today, 04:47 PM
 
228 posts, read 192,643 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Oh, it's used all over the world and for many many years. Clinical trials???? I had the original work done in my shoulder and got 3 yrs pain free shoulder.

Surgery world doesn't want these injections as surgeons could lose a big part of their incomes. Rehabs could lose money, drug companies could lose money....with PRP/Stem Cells that's it, no rehabs, no drugs.
One patient does not make a clinical trial
 
Old Today, 05:11 PM
 
8,248 posts, read 11,962,429 times
Reputation: 18208
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
I guess the Cleveland Clinic and Mayo got together and chose to troll for patients!!! Get real, this Regenerative Medicine works. And I've posted what I believe and others believe what is holding it back from insurance coverage.
And you've also posted that you diagnose yourself with an ersatz Ouija Board (a pendulum), so I think that tells us all we need to know about your "beliefs." As for the specifics of what you've posted regarding why this isn't covered by insurance, once again, your belief is illogical, simple-minded nonsense.
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