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Old 08-02-2019, 10:30 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,984 posts, read 2,911,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
None of that ever crossed my mind during my working years, and if it had, not sure how that would have affected anything. What does others having something have to do with me and what I accomplish? Nothing. This is a mindset I cannot relate to.
It's called empathy. Not everyone has it.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:31 AM
 
7,376 posts, read 8,716,902 times
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Quote:
fixing core problems with the system.
Specifically: what system are you referring to and what core problems?

Quote:
Voluntary giving won't get us there.
Well if it can't be only voluntary, it will have to be involuntary is what you're saying. How should these monies be removed from the clutches of the wealthy? Higher taxes?
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
32,001 posts, read 20,179,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
It's called empathy. Not everyone has it.
First your issue is "fix the system" and then your issue is "empathy"..... can't really have a decent discussion with that kind of change in the goal posts.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:55 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,984 posts, read 2,911,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lottamoxie View Post
Specifically: what system are you referring to and what core problems?



Well if it can't be only voluntary, it will have to be involuntary is what you're saying. How should these monies be removed from the clutches of the wealthy? Higher taxes?
Yes, higher taxes. We did fine with high progressive taxes in the past.

Anyway, here are a couple of sources of info about how we are going off the tracks. The corporations and the top tier are doing well at the expense of those below. To some degree, it has to work that way. But the degree to which it has progressed is out of hand.

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insight...illing-america

Quote:
William Lazonick, who studied S&P 500 companies from 2003 to 2012 and discovered that they routinely spend 54% of their earnings buying back their own stock (reducing the number of outstanding shares and driving up share prices) and 37% of their earnings on dividends — both of which benefit shareholders. That leaves just 9% of earnings for investment in their business and their people.

Median household income in the U.S. is less than 1% higher today than in 1989, according to the Census Bureau. “There’s no middle class, and the upper middle class has very little money left to spend, so they can’t drive the economy. The only people driving the GDP are the top 20% of us,”

Nearly 60% of American households are technically insolvent and adding to their debt loads each year. In addition, income inequality in the U.S. is reaching new peaks: The top layer of earners now claim a larger portion of the nation’s income than ever before — more even than the peak in 1927, just two years before the onset of the Great Depression.
https://time.com/4327419/american-ca...-great-crisis/
Quote:
the financial sector now represents around 7% of the U.S. economy, up from about 4% in 1980. Despite currently taking around 25% of all corporate profits, it creates a mere 4% of all jobs. Trouble is, research by numerous academics as well as institutions like the Bank for International Settlements and the International Monetary Fund shows that when finance gets that big, it starts to suck the economic air out of the room. In fact, finance starts having this adverse effect when it’s only half the size that it currently is in the U.S. Thanks to these changes, our economy is gradually becoming “a zero-sum game between financial wealth holders and the rest of America,” says former Goldman Sachs banker Wallace Turbeville

In the early 1980s, new companies made up half of all U.S. businesses. For all the talk of Silicon Valley startups, the number of new firms as a share of all businesses has actually shrunk. From 1978 to 2012 it declined by 44%, a trend that numerous researchers and even many investors and businesspeople link to the financial industry’s change in focus from lending to speculation. The wane in entrepreneurship means less economic vibrancy, given that new businesses are the nation’s foremost source of job creation and GDP growth. Buffett summed it up in his folksy way: “You’ve now got a body of people who’ve decided they’d rather go to the casino than the restaurant” of capitalism.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:58 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,984 posts, read 2,911,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
First your issue is "fix the system" and then your issue is "empathy"..... can't really have a decent discussion with that kind of change in the goal posts.
When you said that other people weren't your problem in another comment that did not mention the system at all, I mentioned empathy. You asked a side question and got a "side answer".
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,769 posts, read 49,618,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questions and Comments View Post
... Retired ?
Yes, I am.

I have been retired on pension 18 years, so far.



Quote:
... When working, could you have saved 10% of your gross income MOST years you worked?
Yes, we did.

When I was courting my bride, we decided as a team to focus our efforts on retiring as young as possible. So that was our goal, and 20 years later we accomplished it.

I got my pension at 42, and we were able to retire that year.

It is possible.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
32,001 posts, read 20,179,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
When you said that other people weren't your problem in another comment that did not mention the system at all, I mentioned empathy. You asked a side question and got a "side answer".
Other people who have lots of money weren't "my problem" (not my words). So empathy from me? from the rich? Again, what you are saying makes no sense to me.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:21 AM
 
Location: North East
67 posts, read 15,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
Not everyone can ante up. It isn't a fair system right now. There is a lot of hogwash about how anyone can advance if only they try harder, ignoring the mathematical impossibility what mathematical impossibility of everyone doing that. Meanwhile, the majority of the wealth resides with a small percentage of the populationhow it has always been through history?. I don't want it redistributed evenly; I think capitalism can work and that you should be able to make a lot more than someone who doesn't work as hard, save and invest. But the people on the lower rungs are currently not making enough to have a reasonable quality of life and retire without assistancewhen have the lower rungs been given a good life?. The people who scream the loudest about how unfair it is to ask them to help fund those less fortunate tend to be the small percentage who has the most wealth.
No, not everyone can ante up. I am talking about healthy civilians here. I've spent time in third world nations. Want to know about unfair? Go to Haiti. No, life certainly is not fair. In this country if you are healthy you can earn a living, and if you are smart enough to put money aside, say 10% you will have something in retirement. No, it may not be$6000/month. But there will be something there. I know some immigrant families, some legal, and some not so legal. My point is, they are working their tails off to better their families, and get ahead. They are doing it. There is still a lot of opportunities in this country for those willing to go for it.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:50 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,963 posts, read 1,613,620 times
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I was pretty nonchalant when I began working in 1981, approx $10K/yr, only incremental raises through job changes & emptying my pension savings each move. By 1987 I began to put a bit aside for retirement but by 1990 my life hit a major crisis & I lost everything & just survived, "treading water" financially & putting most expenses on a credit card & paying the minimum because income was scarce until I finally got back on track 1994.

I was then 42yo & started over from zero & saved the max allowed in my 401k + IRA & learned a bit about investing & put more $$$ in stocks & funds. I lived below my means for 20 years & by the last few years I was putting 20% or more of my gross into mutual funds including during 2007 - 2010.

I was able to retire by 2015 @ 63 by investing a lot & living below my means. I was lucky in that I had a good job, not fabulous but solid middle income, & I didn't have a major health issue at any time. I worked my butt off, many 7 day weeks, many long days, I never refused any overtime, mostly bought used furniture & took public transportation - easy here.

So out of 30+ years I saved 10% or more for 20 years.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:59 AM
 
6,855 posts, read 3,826,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead123 View Post
.
Bracing for the flames. But ultimately it's a choice, whether you choose to decide or not. That's what is known as pay yourself first.
It's well known that Americans don't save what they should or could. Generally. But MANY really have little hope of doing that until decades later, after a lot of raises and the kids are grown. Women are the ones who are at the bottom, usually. They get the least preparation and training for life, are charged with the responsibility of kids, and are still underpaid (although it's better now than when I was young).

But criticizing others for not saving more is easy, since everyone can be criticized for not saving as much as they could. Even you.

But you should probably lay off criticizing those who make the least among us. Of all the citizens, they are the ones who are least to blame for the lack of health care and retirement safety of those at the bottom. There are plenty of people who work darn hard at the bottom, but can't save for retirement.

Health care costs have a lot to do with this, yet I bet most who are critical of those at the bottom are not in favor of programs for all citizens to get access to basic health care.

Last edited by bpollen; 08-02-2019 at 12:08 PM..
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