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Old 08-02-2019, 12:00 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,984 posts, read 2,911,886 times
Reputation: 6397

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Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead123 View Post
No, not everyone can ante up. I am talking about healthy civilians here. I've spent time in third world nations. Want to know about unfair? Go to Haiti. No, life certainly is not fair. In this country if you are healthy you can earn a living, and if you are smart enough to put money aside, say 10% you will have something in retirement. No, it may not be$6000/month. But there will be something there. I know some immigrant families, some legal, and some not so legal. My point is, they are working their tails off to better their families, and get ahead. They are doing it. There is still a lot of opportunities in this country for those willing to go for it.
You inserted a bit of text in what was supposedly a quote from me.

Yes, it is unfair other places. Yes, it has been unfair in other times. Aristocracy is nothing new or unique.

This statement:
In this country if you are healthy you can earn a living
is not true as an absolute. There are not enough jobs that support people to go around. There are many jobs that don't pay enough. You can take a job at a business that closes in a depressed area and take a financial beating getting out of there. If you do believe this as an absolute truth, there isn't much point in discussion.
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:28 PM
 
2,385 posts, read 2,408,903 times
Reputation: 2388
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallstaff View Post
I was refraining from commenting here but since jrkliny did it for me... What's this about "Hey you try to raise 3 kids on that paycheck?" Don't have the kids unless and until you get get more money. I did 20 yrs in the military and saw this all the time with 1 and 2 stripers. They know exactly how much money they're making... (almost) exactly how much it will increase in the next 5 yrs... but they get married and have kids anyway! And cry about making ends meet.

Page 2: I would submit that having a reasonable chance at feasibly saving 10% off the top out of one's salary, as a single person, in today's dollars, would require that you make something on the order of $40,000 - $50,000 bucks. So, I am not entirely unsympathetic to the subjects of this discussion. I think some are too sanguin about how "easy" it is to get a good job, keep a good job, move up the ladder

BUT... here is something that was put forth probably as far back as the 1980's. You're just starting out. You don't make much money. You want to have a secure retirement. For the first five or six years of your work life you work two jobs. Live on one, entirely save the rest. By the time you're 65 or 60 (or even sooner if you catch 1982-1999 stock market in there) you will have the resources mathed-out above by "Questions and comments."

The multiple jobs idea is a great point and needs to be recommended more often. When you are just starting out, you are often paid hourly, so if you work 60 hours a week at a job, great, you can bank overtime. But if they are only giving you 40 (and you aren't expected to take work home with you which happens as you achieve higher roles in a company), spend the extra time moonlighting doing something different. If you want to avoid burnout, choose a 2nd job in a different line of work. If you get a job as a waiter/bartender, it covers socialization and maybe even some food (so meal costs are reduced). If you plan to own a home in the future, learn a trade, so when something breaks at home, you can repair it yourself instead of paying out big $'s to a repair person. When one is in their early 20s, you typically have more energy (and fewer strings pulling on you). You will get more out of 20 hours working the right 2nd job than frittering that time away in front of the TV or socializing 4 nights/week.
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:48 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,585 posts, read 6,475,362 times
Reputation: 10163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
Key word is "survived". It is not practical for everyone to save. Do you want people to eat store brands, live in low rent housing, not be able to afford vacations and just generally have a low standard of living so that they can keep funding that meager existence once they can no longer work without public assistance?
Vacations can be cheap. Go fishing.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:09 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,585 posts, read 6,475,362 times
Reputation: 10163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Expecting to retire by saving "dollar bills" is a disaster in the making.

The same train wreck is fast approaching:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
The U.S. “Death” clock
National Debt: $22.5+ Trillion (in dollars)
U.S. Federal Spending : $4.452 T (in dollar bills)
U.S. Federal Deficit : $1.034 T (in dollar bills)
U.S. Debt Service : $0.372 T (in dollar bills)
((congress is borrowing more than it pays in interest))
. . . .
Debt per capita : $68,418
Debt per taxpayer : $183,032
. . . .
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm
Q: How much U.S. currency is in circulation?

A: There was approximately $1.70 trillion in circulation as of January 31, 2019. This figure includes Federal Reserve notes ($1,655.2 billion), U.S. notes ($0.2 billion), currency no longer issued ($0.2 billion), and coins outstanding ($47.2 billion).

U.S. Population = 329,217,343
Estimated $5,042.26 per capita in circulation

This will not end well.
I think this is a second time you post something non related to this thread, same post, just different thread. Are you lost?
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:11 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,585 posts, read 6,475,362 times
Reputation: 10163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
I doubt it would do any good to flame you for a lack of empathy and understanding. If you believe the myth that everyone can better their situation, I probably can't convince you otherwise even though the math makes it impossible; there just aren't enough seats at the high table. It is true that being industrious substantially increases your odds of making it further up the socioeconomic scale. It does nothing to fix the overall system.
It’s also a myth that you believe they can’t. Honestly, poor people in this country can get ahead. This is not Cuba.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:12 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,585 posts, read 6,475,362 times
Reputation: 10163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
Not everyone can ante up. It isn't a fair system right now. There is a lot of hogwash about how anyone can advance if only they try harder, ignoring the mathematical impossibility of everyone doing that. Meanwhile, the majority of the wealth resides with a small percentage of the population. I don't want it redistributed evenly; I think capitalism can work and that you should be able to make a lot more than someone who doesn't work as hard, save and invest. But the people on the lower rungs are currently not making enough to have a reasonable quality of life and retire without assistance. The people who scream the loudest about how unfair it is to ask them to help fund those less fortunate tend to be the small percentage who has the most wealth.
You should stay in the Political section.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:13 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,585 posts, read 6,475,362 times
Reputation: 10163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
It's called empathy. Not everyone has it.
Fake sympathy, I have plenty. It’s real sympathy that I’m really interested in. Give it a break.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:14 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,585 posts, read 6,475,362 times
Reputation: 10163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
First your issue is "fix the system" and then your issue is "empathy"..... can't really have a decent discussion with that kind of change in the goal posts.
He should stay in the political section.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:25 PM
 
Location: North East
67 posts, read 15,584 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
It's well known that Americans don't save what they should or could. Generally. But MANY really have little hope of doing that until decades later, (a choice)after a lot of raises and the kids are grown.(choice yet again) Women are the ones who are at the bottom, usually. They get the least preparation and training for life, are charged with the responsibility of kids, and are still underpaid (although it's better now than when I was young).

But criticizing others for not saving more is easy, who is criticizing? I made a statement that it's a choice , which you just proved abovesince everyone can be criticized for not saving as much as they could. Even you.

But you should probably lay off criticizing those who make the least among us. Of all the citizens, they are the ones who are least to blame for the lack of health care and retirement safety of those at the bottom. There are plenty of people who work darn hard at the bottom, but can't save for retirement.

Health care costs have a lot to do with this, yet I bet most who are critical of those at the bottom are not in favor of programs for all citizens to get access to basic health care.
How is choice , criticizing? Look, we all pay taxes, car insurance, home/rental insurance, iPhone bills, etc. You give all that money to other people, aren't YOU more important? Isn't YOUR future more important? Pay yourself first. Because none of those people are going to pay for your retirement. That's the gist of what I'm trying to say. If that's criticizing then I'm guilty as charged. Lol
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:50 PM
 
Location: The South
5,289 posts, read 3,673,829 times
Reputation: 8016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questions and Comments View Post
What I always ask people who never saved a dime for a rainy day or retirement is this question: "What if your employer had paid you 10% less, would you have survived?" They think about it and finally answer "yes, I guess so." Maybe people should think long term and pay themselves first and act like they got a job that pays 10% less, so they can save.
You understand. “Pay yourself first”. Always been my rule.
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