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Old 08-11-2019, 08:44 AM
 
2,491 posts, read 638,796 times
Reputation: 4333

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
I don't think much about those other people with no savings.

They made their choices in life and so did I.

We'll both live with the consequences.
Some people view the world differently. They feel a great debt to their fellow man, which debt they will gladly repay with your hard-earned money.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:12 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
4,018 posts, read 2,940,215 times
Reputation: 6510
I believe a lot of people, a significant percentage and probably the majority, end up in this situation through no fault of their own (just bad luck with health, jobs that go away or just not being gifted enough to handle much more than entry level). I think there are also people who planned poorly even though they had the means to save. I think there are also some people who never put in much effort.

A lot of people seem to think that people who didn't advance far could have if they tried harder even though there are less jobs at each level you move up. Some people seem to think that people who don't make much shouldn't take vacations or eat out but should instead live a menial existence and save up so that they can continue to have a menial existence when they retire with little or no public assistance.

Some of us think any job that we want done should pay enough for someone to have more than a menial existence. Some of us don't. Some of us think that we should help people who are on hard times, whether it is while working or retired. Some of us don't.

Since this forum is geared toward people who are up in years, there is very little chance of swaying someone who is on one side of the issue to change their opinion. All we really do is argue about it. I really need to stop participating in this kind of thread.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Rust'n in Tustin
2,365 posts, read 2,479,893 times
Reputation: 4471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
I don't think much about those other people with no savings.

They made their choices in life and so did I.

We'll both live with the consequences.
That's exactly where I'm at. I don't try to help other people live their lives. They made their choice.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,840 posts, read 6,596,086 times
Reputation: 10418
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
I believe a lot of people, a significant percentage and probably the majority, end up in this situation through no fault of their own (just bad luck with health, jobs that go away or just not being gifted enough to handle much more than entry level). I think there are also people who planned poorly even though they had the means to save. I think there are also some people who never put in much effort.

A lot of people seem to think that people who didn't advance far could have if they tried harder even though there are less jobs at each level you move up. Some people seem to think that people who don't make much shouldn't take vacations or eat out but should instead live a menial existence and save up so that they can continue to have a menial existence when they retire with little or no public assistance.

Some of us think any job that we want done should pay enough for someone to have more than a menial existence. Some of us don't. Some of us think that we should help people who are on hard times, whether it is while working or retired. Some of us don't.

Since this forum is geared toward people who are up in years, there is very little chance of swaying someone who is on one side of the issue to change their opinion. All we really do is argue about it. I really need to stop participating in this kind of thread.
You sum it up nicely. Bad luck with health, yeah I understand. Both my husband and I got it. I spare you the details. Bad luck with jobs. My husband and I lost jobs during the three recessions, you could say no fault of ours. But whatís difference does it make? Crawl back we had to do it. We had two kids to feed. I remember when both of us were unemployed and we went shopping at a Mexican supermarket, to save on fresh fruit and vegs, some young person had the audacity to ask us for money in the parking lot. Unbelievable.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
8,101 posts, read 4,955,028 times
Reputation: 29611
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
Since this forum is geared toward people who are up in years, there is very little chance of swaying someone who is on one side of the issue to change their opinion. All we really do is argue about it. I really need to stop participating in this kind of thread.
This is progress. You used to start these kinds of threads and argue passionately and provocatively for your point of view. Some shared it, some didnít. But youíre right: I donít think you changed anyoneís mind.

I prefer to think that being ďup in yearsĒ, as you say, means I have enough experience to guide my decisions. I donít think it means Iím inflexible, though I canít speak for others. I have personally tried to help many people ó and watched friends try to help even more ó and nothing good ever came of it. Human nature always came to the fore. Gratitude is a rare commodity.

An ex-boyfriend brought some homeless people into the house I once shared with him and was shocked/stunned/amazed when they stole him blind. It wasnít the first time. He was always doing things like that, leaving the doors unlocked and telling people they could come in while he was gone, then coming home to find vintage firearms and his computer missing. A refusal to learn from the first experience strikes me as a form of mental illness.

I think social services should be left to the professionals. Thatís what we pay them for.
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Old 08-11-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,840 posts, read 6,596,086 times
Reputation: 10418
I must be dyslexic, up in years looks like up in ears, too many ear waxes.
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Old 08-11-2019, 10:23 AM
 
3,998 posts, read 3,301,334 times
Reputation: 11623
I'm still wondering why so many people fail to understand the social phenomenon of poverty. Many who post here reveal a time when they didn't have much money as their definition of being poverty stricken, during their college years, or at their first job, bouts of unemployment, etc. But, generational poverty, the kind of poverty that leads to a life of poor decisions, poor health, a lack of education, and early death, usually is a life long affliction and therefore one that leaves the afflicted broke, early in life, and most certainly in their latter days.

Growing up in poverty can be a life altering experience to the extent that many in that situation continue to live a life of, right here, right now. There isn't much of a future planning sense among the poor, their entire focus is on today and the instant gratification of what can be obtained in the present. I knew a couple who fit this pattern, both worked at good paying jobs, both had grown up in real deprivation and lived high when the money was rolling in, he gambled, she was a shopaholic, fortunately, both had great pensions, because at sixty two they didn't have much money saved. They now live a very good life in retirement though thanks to their pensions and the fact that they did change their ways.

The saving grace for that couple was their great jobs and their union negotiated pensions, had they worked at low pay they would have been flat broke in their old age. Very few of the poor have such good luck as these two did, so it isn't any wonder that we see so many of the elderly in dire poverty, many never had any truly substantial wealth, so no savings, any money they had was spent on necessities, and nothing left over to save. I noted some complaining about the subject at hand in this thread, it seems as though many are uncomfortable with the entire notion of poverty as anything but the result of personal failings of flawed people. And sometimes that is exactly the case, but not always..
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:02 AM
 
776 posts, read 387,560 times
Reputation: 2477
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
I'm still wondering why so many people fail to understand the social phenomenon of poverty. Many who post here reveal a time when they didn't have much money as their definition of being poverty stricken, during their college years, or at their first job, bouts of unemployment, etc. But, generational poverty, the kind of poverty that leads to a life of poor decisions, poor health, a lack of education, and early death, usually is a life long affliction and therefore one that leaves the afflicted broke, early in life, and most certainly in their latter days.
I agree, and IMO poverty is largely a state of mind. Coco Channel, a woman who rose from abject poverty, described it best:

Some people think luxury is the opposite of poverty. It is the opposite of vulgarity

The chronic poor lead vulgar, gratuitous lives by choice. After years, decades of this chosen lifestyle and thinking, it's nearly impossible for them to change.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:10 AM
 
72,798 posts, read 72,628,690 times
Reputation: 50311
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
I'm still wondering why so many people fail to understand the social phenomenon of poverty. Many who post here reveal a time when they didn't have much money as their definition of being poverty stricken, during their college years, or at their first job, bouts of unemployment, etc. But, generational poverty, the kind of poverty that leads to a life of poor decisions, poor health, a lack of education, and early death, usually is a life long affliction and therefore one that leaves the afflicted broke, early in life, and most certainly in their latter days.

Growing up in poverty can be a life altering experience to the extent that many in that situation continue to live a life of, right here, right now. There isn't much of a future planning sense among the poor, their entire focus is on today and the instant gratification of what can be obtained in the present. I knew a couple who fit this pattern, both worked at good paying jobs, both had grown up in real deprivation and lived high when the money was rolling in, he gambled, she was a shopaholic, fortunately, both had great pensions, because at sixty two they didn't have much money saved. They now live a very good life in retirement though thanks to their pensions and the fact that they did change their ways.

The saving grace for that couple was their great jobs and their union negotiated pensions, had they worked at low pay they would have been flat broke in their old age. Very few of the poor have such good luck as these two did, so it isn't any wonder that we see so many of the elderly in dire poverty, many never had any truly substantial wealth, so no savings, any money they had was spent on necessities, and nothing left over to save. I noted some complaining about the subject at hand in this thread, it seems as though many are uncomfortable with the entire notion of poverty as anything but the result of personal failings of flawed people. And sometimes that is exactly the case, but not always..
poverty of others is a concern , it is not my worry or job to solve .
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:14 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,840 posts, read 6,596,086 times
Reputation: 10418
I did experience poverty, how else did I have peanut butter and jelly everyday for lunch for a year. I used to drool at my friends for having a burrito for lunch. We had no phone even. In my teenager years, I cleaned people’s house and office for spending money. Don’t assume people don’t know it or just the college years. We had 8 people in a 2 bedroom apartment, they kicked us out because the neighbors complained about it.
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