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Old 08-21-2019, 04:26 PM
 
73,028 posts, read 72,816,997 times
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That does not fit the definition of a Ponzi scheme ....a Ponzi scheme promises high returns from a business or product but never invests in those things ...instead it counts on future investor money .

Pensions neither promise high returns nor do not actually invest in what they say they do.

Pensions are like insurance where old and new money is used to pay off current claims and there is no promise of a high return ....
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,225 posts, read 14,407,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
The boomers with no assets may (or will have to) keep working.
Why? It's not mandatory. They'd only need to get working to maintain the same Life-Style and few actually do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
Wouldn't they have to come up with a disability to do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
I believe they get SSI, its for people who never contribute to SS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
SSI is welfare for very low income people. Is that what you meant?
It's shocking really you people lived here all your lives and don't understand it.

Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a State-run program administered by the Social Security Administration.

That means SSA prints the checks, which saves the States money, since SSA is already printing 10s of Millions of checks each month anyway. No sense in duplicating services.

To qualify for SSI you must be disabled. Generally, SSI is for adults who were born disabled and were never able to work. It is also for adults who attempted to work, but became disabled and do not have 40 qualifying credits for Social Security Disability or who do not meet the qualifying credits under the pro-rated qualifying credit scheme for Social Security Disability.

It's also for adults age 65 or older who either do not qualify for Social Security or were not married and cannot obtain spousal benefits.

I knew a veteran who is dead now, but he worked on his parents farm his whole life and never actually got a paycheck. His Social Security benefit was $80/month. SSI provided additional income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
As far as "abundant opportunities available"? Those are surely not as plentiful as they were 40-50 years ago, especially for blue-collar workers.
Oh, yes, they are, but you might have to relocate and the vast majority of people have no interest in relocating, especially since it will force them to step outside their comfort zone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
This is my concern. As states find it harder and harder to pay for LTC for all the elderly who don't have funds, care will deteriorate and eligibility requirements will be tightened. And the rest of us will be taxed more to pay for it.
I don't believe care will deteriorate, because care is mandated by the States.

Every State has statutes that mandate the number of care-givers per institution population. The statutes do vary for any number of reasons.

Generally, the statutes say that if an LTC has a patient population of 100, then there must be N-number of doctors, N-numbers of PAs/NPs/RNs, N-number of LPNs and N-number of CNAs.

The numbers are determined in part by the organization of the group in question.

For example, in a particular State, the Nurse Practitioners may be well-organized and lobby the State legislature to demand N-number of specific jobs for NPs and then PAs, RNs and LPNs be damned. If those medical professionals want jobs, they can lobby the legislature.

It's more likely that eligibility requirements will be tightened.

One thing people don't consider when looking at the effects of a $15/hour federal minimum wage, is that both the wage cost and the labor cost of LTCs will balloon which will blow through both Medicare and Medicaid funds very quickly.

The wage cost is not just $15/hour it's $15/hour plus FICA, plus HI, plus SUTA, plus FUTA, plus WC and then the labor cost is the wage cost plus the cost of benefits.
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:55 PM
 
2,441 posts, read 857,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
I don't believe care will deteriorate, because care is mandated by the States.
There are ways. You can get the cheapest help possible (and this is an area where it's already getting hard to find good people- it's hard work). You can offer crappy meals. It can be 3 squares a day but all from cans, small quantities of cheap meat, etc. You don't have a gym, chair yoga, a library, Wi-Fi. You keep anyone who needs help toileting in adult diapers and maybe they don't get changed quite as often as they should.


Quote:
One thing people don't consider when looking at the effects of a $15/hour federal minimum wage, is that both the wage cost and the labor cost of LTCs will balloon which will blow through both Medicare and Medicaid funds very quickly.

The wage cost is not just $15/hour it's $15/hour plus FICA, plus HI, plus SUTA, plus FUTA, plus WC and then the labor cost is the wage cost plus the cost of benefits.
I agree on that- I've always said that raising the minimum wage has a feel-good aspect to it but it does not happen in a vacuum. It will certainly increase the cost of LTC.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:05 PM
 
30,019 posts, read 35,132,603 times
Reputation: 11908
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
That does not fit the definition of a Ponzi scheme ....a Ponzi scheme promises high returns from a business or product but never invests in those things ...instead it counts on future investor money .

Pensions neither promise high returns nor do not actually invest in what they say they do.

Pensions are like insurance where old and new money is used to pay off current claims and there is no promise of a high return ....
The trust fund is invested with a actuarial ROI that is needed to sustain the fund. That is typically between 7-8% which many argue is to high and not realistic to sustain FUTURE payouts. Why do you think they don't invest in what they say they do? Public pension funds have open books subject to multiple levels of review and audit. Public pension funds have trillions in reserves. The issue is long term for most of them since the payout is a formula and not what ROI might determine like a 401/403

https://www.calpers.ca.gov/page/news...stment-returns

Quote:
SACRAMENTO, Calif. CalPERS today reported a preliminary 6.7 percent net return on investments for the 12‐month period that ended June 30, 2019. CalPERS assets at the end of the fiscal year stood at more than $370 billion.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:07 PM
 
73,028 posts, read 72,816,997 times
Reputation: 50561
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
The trust fund is invested with a actuarial ROI that is needed to sustain the fund. That is typically between 7-8% which many argue is to high and not realistic to sustain FUTURE payouts. Why do you think they don't invest in what they say they do? Public pension funds have open books subject to multiple levels of review and audit. Public pension funds have trillions in reserves. The issue is long term for most of them since the payout is a formula and not what ROI might determine like a 401/403

https://www.calpers.ca.gov/page/news...stment-returns
No matter how they fund it ,it does not meet the definition of a Ponzi..

I doubt that is an expected roi ...by law they can only buy us treasuries in particular a special treasury bond ...they can not invest in anything else especially equities... the government is not allowed to own public companies ....they can loan money and take collateral only in special circumstances
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:08 PM
 
30,019 posts, read 35,132,603 times
Reputation: 11908
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
That does not fit the definition of a Ponzi scheme ....a Ponzi scheme promises high returns from a business or product but never invests in those things ...instead it counts on future investor money .

Pensions neither promise high returns nor do not actually invest in what they say they do.

Pensions are like insurance where old and new money is used to pay off current claims and there is no promise of a high return ....
At least public pensions have a trust fund that is invested getting a ROI on that investment in excess of treasury rates which is more than can be said for SS.
That's more of a worry for all of us. A lot more than our pension funds.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:10 PM
 
30,019 posts, read 35,132,603 times
Reputation: 11908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I haven't received a better offer. With that said, I have a relatively easy job, a good boss, and am paid fairly well by local standards. My job prior to this seemed like a great match on paper - once I got there, it was hellish. With things going relatively well, I don't want to upset the apple cart. Having a boss you like

If I could get 50% more in Raleigh, I'd move. I'm not moving for a 10% raise. I frequently get recruiters from where I used to live in Iowa reaching out to me. This area isn't perfect, but overall, I'd rather live here than Iowa.
I don't mean to be rude but are you worth 50% more in the Raleigh area?
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:11 PM
 
30,019 posts, read 35,132,603 times
Reputation: 11908
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
No matter how they fund it ,it does not meet the definition of a Ponzi
Agreed 100%
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:18 PM
 
73,028 posts, read 72,816,997 times
Reputation: 50561
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
At least public pensions have a trust fund that is invested getting a ROI on that investment in excess of treasury rates which is more than can be said for SS.
That's more of a worry for all of us. A lot more than our pension funds.
The American govt is not allowed to buy stock of public corporations....government takeover of public business being not allowed is what separates us from communist countries....

So ss can never buy anything but bonds.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:32 PM
 
30,019 posts, read 35,132,603 times
Reputation: 11908
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
The American govt is not allowed to buy stock of public corporations....government takeover of public business being not allowed is what separates us from communist countries....

So ss can never buy anything but bonds.
So state and local pensions funds have the opportunity to exceed the possible ROI when compared to SS. That's my point.


From my previous Calipers link{
[
Quote:
B]Drivers of the return included the Fixed Income program, which generated a 9.6 percent net return, followed by Private Equity and Public Equity net returns of 7.7 percent and 6.1 percent returns respectively.[/b]
Public pension funds often use Hedge funds to handle part of their portfolio. That is the subject of criticism for some. But that's another topic.
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