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Old 08-12-2019, 06:22 PM
 
Location: planet earth
5,161 posts, read 1,963,583 times
Reputation: 11349

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By "fake," for the purposes of this thread, I am mainly talking about people who present one way and you KNOW they are probably "other" ways in the core of their personalities.

What I mean is - people, who for appearances sake - or to align with corporate or political policies, don't show you their *true* self or personalities.

I think we all do this to one degree or another.

I remember consciously deciding to rein myself in in corporate environments, for the purpose of surviving/prospering at a job.

Babyboomers used to call this "selling out," and most adults have to "sell-out" in some ways to survive (or if they don't "have to," they haven't figured out how "not to").

In my older age, I am thinking about many people I know now that I attended high school with - I remember their high school personalities, and yes, people do grow and some change, but I believe core essence stays the same - and some of these people had very important, high level jobs, and so, I am sure, modified their personalities to suit their employers along the way, until now, they seem to be a shell of themselves.

I am thinking about this because some of these old high school friends would be really fun to talk to if they would or could shed the fake veneers of personality they have adopted. But when I see them, the walls are never torn down, and that makes me a little sad (for myself, since I can't have a real, honest exchange with them).

Are you satisfied with living on the surface and not having deep, undefended exchanges?

Just wondering if most people miss interacting with people in more "honest" (meaning genuine) ways?

Last edited by nobodysbusiness; 08-12-2019 at 07:51 PM..
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:36 PM
 
1,806 posts, read 636,299 times
Reputation: 3379
I think many people don't consciously do it to be "fake" but rather are just not comfortable with letting most other people see their truest selves -- for whatever reason.

Sometimes its because of job/career, sometimes it's because other people have expectations that we are either trying to meet or afraid not to (for fear of losing them), sometimes it's because we have been hurt or deceived before by someone who manipulated us, sometimes it's just because they are a private person by nature .... could be any or all of those reasons, or others as well.

Billy Joel wrote a song on that theme: The Stranger

Well, we all have a face that we hide away forever
And we take them out and show ourselves when everyone has gone
Some are satin, some are steel
Some are silk and some are leather
They're the faces of a stranger
But we'd love to try them on


Well, we all fall in love
But we disregard the danger
Though we share so many secrets
There are some we never tell
Why were you so surprised that you never saw the stranger?
Did you ever let your lover see the stranger in yourself?
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:53 PM
 
Location: planet earth
5,161 posts, read 1,963,583 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBCjunkie View Post
I think many people don't consciously do it to be "fake" but rather are just not comfortable with letting most other people see their truest selves -- for whatever reason.

Sometimes its because of job/career, sometimes it's because other people have expectations that we are either trying to meet or afraid not to (for fear of losing them), sometimes it's because we have been hurt or deceived before by someone who manipulated us, sometimes it's just because they are a private person by nature .... could be any or all of those reasons, or others as well.

Billy Joel wrote a song on that theme: The Stranger

Well, we all have a face that we hide away forever
And we take them out and show ourselves when everyone has gone
Some are satin, some are steel
Some are silk and some are leather
They're the faces of a stranger
But we'd love to try them on


Well, we all fall in love
But we disregard the danger
Though we share so many secrets
There are some we never tell
Why were you so surprised that you never saw the stranger?
Did you ever let your lover see the stranger in yourself?
I agree with you, and that song says it all!
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Old Yesterday, 04:04 AM
 
12,946 posts, read 14,222,365 times
Reputation: 35557
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
By "fake," for the purposes of this thread, I am mainly talking about people who present one way and you KNOW they are probably "other" ways in the core of their personalities.

What I mean is - people, who for appearances sake - or to align with corporate or political policies, don't show you their *true* self or personalities.
Not at work much. I found most of the time it was "what you see is what you get"...not to say that people did not lie for various reasons, but that is something different, I think.
....
Quote:
I remember consciously deciding to rein myself in in corporate environments, for the purpose of surviving/prospering at a job.
Early in my post-college "career" I too often stupidly acted like the jerk I was, and consequently got nowhere, except fired sometimes. Later on as the result of some magic I became Mr. Nice Guy, which made a better impression, but also meant that I could be useful to bosses who were in ticklish situations because I made a good, low-keyed, test-the-water type assistant/liaison. Thus, I did do better financially, though I did not have what most people would call a career. I really had lousy motivation about having a career so that accounts for a lot. I was satisfied with a job, I just wanted it to be a job I liked was all.
....
Quote:
Are you satisfied with living on the surface and not having deep, undefended exchanges?
I emigrated from the U.S. twenty years ago, and I learned that being Mr. Nice Guy when dealing on a general every day level in shops, restaurants, government offices, etc. had become pretty much who I was in this level of social intercourse. But also, I am retired, I am not in a hurry, I am not Mr. Big Deal....so that certainly makes for a more naturally easy-going manner of dealing with people at these levels.

But these are in many cases acquaintanceships, not friendships...and in some cases are transient, e.g. bureaucrats.

Quote:
Just wondering if most people miss interacting with people in more "honest" (meaning genuine) ways?
I have had wonderful friends since moving here, but it has been two decades and they were older people - now all but one man are deceased. I have a very honest relationship with him which I prize. I found that I got along with Germans very well most of the time. I get on very well with Brazilian, though my level of language fluency in this case put limits on these friendship unless they speak English too.

Most members of English-speaking ethnic groups find me "odd, abrasive, too bookish, too vulgar." (I have had all those adjectives repeated back to me which accounts for the quotes.) I think by the standards of English middle class people they are accurate. (I think most well-mannered American middle class people would feel the same way. I have/and had a few wealthy, well-educated relatives: I am a phony with them.) I lived all my adult life in Manhattan (NYC), and I have been told by Americans, both as a joke and as a criticism, that I am "very New Yorkie." Yes, the term is a stereotype, but I have no doubt that it fits as well as any other description. I have too many rough edges.

Back to the question. If I did not have this one friend (who is English, ironically, but lower class) I would be sh*t out of luck for a true friend. The last two were a German woman, and a German guy who died about four and three years ago. So, I am down to one and I would acutely feel his absence.
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Old Yesterday, 08:56 AM
 
1,121 posts, read 1,834,460 times
Reputation: 4876
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
By "fake," for the purposes of this thread, I am mainly talking about people who present one way and you KNOW they are probably "other" ways in the core of their personalities.

What I mean is - people, who for appearances sake - or to align with corporate or political policies, don't show you their *true* self or personalities.

I think we all do this to one degree or another.

I remember consciously deciding to rein myself in in corporate environments, for the purpose of surviving/prospering at a job.

Babyboomers used to call this "selling out," and most adults have to "sell-out" in some ways to survive (or if they don't "have to," they haven't figured out how "not to").

In my older age, I am thinking about many people I know now that I attended high school with - I remember their high school personalities, and yes, people do grow and some change, but I believe core essence stays the same - and some of these people had very important, high level jobs, and so, I am sure, modified their personalities to suit their employers along the way, until now, they seem to be a shell of themselves.

I am thinking about this because some of these old high school friends would be really fun to talk to if they would or could shed the fake veneers of personality they have adopted. But when I see them, the walls are never torn down, and that makes me a little sad (for myself, since I can't have a real, honest exchange with them).

Are you satisfied with living on the surface and not having deep, undefended exchanges?

Just wondering if most people miss interacting with people in more "honest" (meaning genuine) ways?
Iím not sure just because they seem that way to you, they are the same with people they are close to. In any case, 40 or 50 years of living does change a person.
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Old Yesterday, 11:05 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,997 posts, read 1,627,758 times
Reputation: 8103
I wouldn't know where to draw the line between fake, aspirational or hypocrite tbh. It's a fine line & everyone seems to put on some airs to some degree.
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Old Yesterday, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
684 posts, read 180,676 times
Reputation: 1079
I live in South Florida - EVERYBODY is fake down here!
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Old Yesterday, 12:01 PM
 
Location: planet earth
5,161 posts, read 1,963,583 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
Not at work much. I found most of the time it was "what you see is what you get"...not to say that people did not lie for various reasons, but that is something different, I think.
....


Early in my post-college "career" I too often stupidly acted like the jerk I was, and consequently got nowhere, except fired sometimes. Later on as the result of some magic I became Mr. Nice Guy, which made a better impression, but also meant that I could be useful to bosses who were in ticklish situations because I made a good, low-keyed, test-the-water type assistant/liaison. Thus, I did do better financially, though I did not have what most people would call a career. I really had lousy motivation about having a career so that accounts for a lot. I was satisfied with a job, I just wanted it to be a job I liked was all.
....


I emigrated from the U.S. twenty years ago, and I learned that being Mr. Nice Guy when dealing on a general every day level in shops, restaurants, government offices, etc. had become pretty much who I was in this level of social intercourse. But also, I am retired, I am not in a hurry, I am not Mr. Big Deal....so that certainly makes for a more naturally easy-going manner of dealing with people at these levels.

But these are in many cases acquaintanceships, not friendships...and in some cases are transient, e.g. bureaucrats.



I have had wonderful friends since moving here, but it has been two decades and they were older people - now all but one man are deceased. I have a very honest relationship with him which I prize. I found that I got along with Germans very well most of the time. I get on very well with Brazilian, though my level of language fluency in this case put limits on these friendship unless they speak English too.

Most members of English-speaking ethnic groups find me "odd, abrasive, too bookish, too vulgar." (I have had all those adjectives repeated back to me which accounts for the quotes.) I think by the standards of English middle class people they are accurate. (I think most well-mannered American middle class people would feel the same way. I have/and had a few wealthy, well-educated relatives: I am a phony with them.) I lived all my adult life in Manhattan (NYC), and I have been told by Americans, both as a joke and as a criticism, that I am "very New Yorkie." Yes, the term is a stereotype, but I have no doubt that it fits as well as any other description. I have too many rough edges.

Back to the question. If I did not have this one friend (who is English, ironically, but lower class) I would be sh*t out of luck for a true friend. The last two were a German woman, and a German guy who died about four and three years ago. So, I am down to one and I would acutely feel his absence.
All so interesting.

In this big world, to say you have one friend you can be genuine with says so much about cultural indoctrination (though from your experiences, not sure what kind of indoctrination applies across the board - maybe "Western" culture?) I don't know if people are more genuine in Eastern cultures, but judging by my attempts at deeper interactions with many Vietnamese people who have done my nails, I would have to say "no" - although maybe they just don't want to "get real" with an old white lady.
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
 
Location: planet earth
5,161 posts, read 1,963,583 times
Reputation: 11349
Using just this one guy as an example: He and I attended high school together and know many of the same people now. He went on to be very successful, but is one of the worst conversationalists I have ever encountered. What's interesting is that people love him! But if you ask him how he is, he always says "Excellent!" (and gives no details).

I asked him once about his best friend in the service who subsequently died and he had nothing to say about him or his wife and kids - nothing. I asked about some of his service friends and also, nothing - I would love to talk to him about high school (we had a very strange teacher in common), but he's incapable of having an in-depth conversation.

I find it just weird and feel the world is so isolating because there are all of these interesting people and yet so few of them are *real* or willing to let down their guards to interact with people in genuine ways.
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Old Yesterday, 12:22 PM
 
7,009 posts, read 1,495,219 times
Reputation: 17365
I don't think so unless you count the many Southern Baptist hypocrites I met when I lived in Alabama for eight months in 1973, which was eight months too long. I was truly shocked at how many people I met who professed to be such good Christians but were very outspoken in their hatred for blacks. (So maybe hypocrites is the wrong word because they truly behaved as though there was no conflict between being good Christians and hating people because of their skin color and/or ancestry.)

However, this was over 45 years ago, so maybe things have changed. (I certainly hope so, anyway!)
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