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Old 08-19-2019, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,422 posts, read 3,114,532 times
Reputation: 9812

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Very familiar, I wound up in a crap job in a factory via a temp agency.

I retired the week after I paid off my mortgage at age 63.
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:36 PM
 
40 posts, read 7,336 times
Reputation: 83
Ageism is the last quietly accepted form of discrimination and difficult to prove. I saw it all the time in every company I worked for. Long service experienced employees were called anchors, mules, blockers etc depending on the country region. To get rid of them they would be put on "important special project teams". Funny thing about those teams, when they broke up regardless of how successful, the majority of the team members, young or old were often left to fend for themselves to look for a job. If the economy was down at the time out they went.

If there was no project then the "sesoned" employees started to get goals they could not possibly reach. After a few misses they were put on performance management plans. HR bulls**T as confessed to me by an HR friend at GE back in the early 90 as . "It's all about finding a way to get rid you you after your 40 and it being legally defensible". Back then however people got decent severance including medical coverage. Today many companies cut you off at month end and say here is COBRA or the market place. Neither being affordable for the average person with a family.

I had to fight my Corp HR group to hire people on occasion. It was not always about qualifications for them. They had their own hiring agenda handed to them. A few would fight for what the business actually needed and the reality the far flung sites faced. While I understood that no one wanted to talk about creating entry level jobs and career ladders the lack of these was the root of the problem driving unqualified people into positions too soon. All those programs both salary and hourly had been swept away by years of cost cutting.

Once I hired a retired air force staff sgt. He had a great supply background and only wanted to work another 5 years or so. The east coast corp high potentials threaten to leave or quit vs coming out to the flyover zone for a 2 year rotation and they always got away with it. The job had been open far too long and was impacting operations. I was pretty new at the time so I said the hell with it and made the offer.

He was honest about exactly what he wanted. I said great, we have a mess, so lets clean things up, get practices security and audits established and start training this woman who is junior on the team (and a local) who was showing a lot of promise as your successor. He did just that .

He got what he wanted, & we got the depart running well again and developed a local who wanted to be there. HQ still gave me crap, the VP of materials actually saying do you know how old he is? They always threatened me with "he better work out"

I do have to say his one managerial flaw, as he had after all been a staff sgt used to people obeying orders was to act like his subordinates were still military. It needed a few "hey Mike, management style discussion 3" meetings. I know so and so floated a completely dumba** idea, but we don't say it quite that way to him in a staff meeting. We say, you bring up some interesting points lets explore those off line. Remembering that make me laugh now.

It is just the way it is and has been in the major companies in the usa starting from what I saw in the late 80's and has accelerated. I used to be the young guy helping the old guy carry his box of lifetime work possessions out to his car. I knew one day it would be me so I kept nothing personal in my office. My replacement lasted 1 year before leaving the company to "seek other opportunities". The person who replaced them was a figure head. Everyone these days wants to be the top dog before they are 30 with their Jiffy Pop resumes and believe they are entitled to it with no honest experience to help or guide the people below them.

Funny thing is my crew of anchors who were pushed out kept getting called back to help when things got bad. The people that pushed them out were gone in a year.

Last edited by Kentucky62; 08-19-2019 at 05:50 PM..
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:02 PM
46H
 
993 posts, read 603,954 times
Reputation: 1926
One more reason older workers are "retired" (besides higher salaries and more time off) is health care. Older workers cost companies more in health care vs younger workers. This is another example of why we should not have to rely on employment for health care coverage.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:20 PM
 
127 posts, read 13,133 times
Reputation: 235
Employers do not discriminate based purely on age. There is absolutely no subjective or objective reason to do so. Younger people are typically cheaper, cheaper to insure, more likely to have the latest skills. It's a business decision.
It's not "Charley is too old, get rid of him." It's "Tran can do Charley's job for 69% as much".
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:31 PM
 
1,170 posts, read 615,403 times
Reputation: 2070
I got "retired" 3 times, once in 2009, once in 2016 (same company in 2009 and 2016, they begged me to come back in 2013 and stupid me, I did!!) and once in 2017, different company. I'm now doing independent contracting for about 20 hours a week working with the same product I trained clients on in those 3 jobs. I could probably find more work if I wanted it. I'm making almost as much as I did as a full time employee but of course I don't have paid benefits now and health insurance is expensive. I have a pretty crappy high deductible non-ACA health/dental plan for $670 a month and of course if I don't work I don't get paid, as in no vacation or holiday pay. I'm 63 so I'm just biding my time until I can go on medicare.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:12 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,990 posts, read 2,073,786 times
Reputation: 6011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm1cc View Post
I think the older you get the harder it is to get a job. The reason is the company does not want to go through training and then have you retire a few years down the road.
I understand this may be a concern, but wouldn't the same concern apply to younger people, who are more likely to hop around to different employers every year or two?
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:29 PM
 
Location: USA
1,095 posts, read 429,050 times
Reputation: 3048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky62 View Post
Ageism is the last quietly accepted form of discrimination and difficult to prove. I saw it all the time in every company I worked for. Long service experienced employees were called anchors, mules, blockers etc depending on the country region. To get rid of them they would be put on "important special project teams". Funny thing about those teams, when they broke up regardless of how successful, the majority of the team members, young or old were often left to fend for themselves to look for a job. If the economy was down at the time out they went.

If there was no project then the "sesoned" employees started to get goals they could not possibly reach. After a few misses they were put on performance management plans. HR bulls**T as confessed to me by an HR friend at GE back in the early 90 as . "It's all about finding a way to get rid you you after your 40 and it being legally defensible". Back then however people got decent severance including medical coverage. Today many companies cut you off at month end and say here is COBRA or the market place. Neither being affordable for the average person with a family.

I had to fight my Corp HR group to hire people on occasion. It was not always about qualifications for them. They had their own hiring agenda handed to them. A few would fight for what the business actually needed and the reality the far flung sites faced. While I understood that no one wanted to talk about creating entry level jobs and career ladders the lack of these was the root of the problem driving unqualified people into positions too soon. All those programs both salary and hourly had been swept away by years of cost cutting.

Once I hired a retired air force staff sgt. He had a great supply background and only wanted to work another 5 years or so. The east coast corp high potentials threaten to leave or quit vs coming out to the flyover zone for a 2 year rotation and they always got away with it. The job had been open far too long and was impacting operations. I was pretty new at the time so I said the hell with it and made the offer.

He was honest about exactly what he wanted. I said great, we have a mess, so lets clean things up, get practices security and audits established and start training this woman who is junior on the team (and a local) who was showing a lot of promise as your successor. He did just that .

He got what he wanted, & we got the depart running well again and developed a local who wanted to be there. HQ still gave me crap, the VP of materials actually saying do you know how old he is? They always threatened me with "he better work out"

I do have to say his one managerial flaw, as he had after all been a staff sgt used to people obeying orders was to act like his subordinates were still military. It needed a few "hey Mike, management style discussion 3" meetings. I know so and so floated a completely dumba** idea, but we don't say it quite that way to him in a staff meeting. We say, you bring up some interesting points lets explore those off line. Remembering that make me laugh now.

It is just the way it is and has been in the major companies in the usa starting from what I saw in the late 80's and has accelerated. I used to be the young guy helping the old guy carry his box of lifetime work possessions out to his car. I knew one day it would be me so I kept nothing personal in my office. My replacement lasted 1 year before leaving the company to "seek other opportunities". The person who replaced them was a figure head. Everyone these days wants to be the top dog before they are 30 with their Jiffy Pop resumes and believe they are entitled to it with no honest experience to help or guide the people below them.

Funny thing is my crew of anchors who were pushed out kept getting called back to help when things got bad. The people that pushed them out were gone in a year.

Are you sure that you got his rank correct? As a former USAF member, I wouldn’t call anyone who retired as a staff sgt qualified to do much of anything.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,825 posts, read 10,965,068 times
Reputation: 16885
It seems like there were a LOT of older employees who got 'downsized' out the door in the 2007-2010 time-frame, but, not so much in today's economy.

Today, it seems like the issue is more at the other end of the spectrum: younger employees unable to earn sufficient income to pay-down over-sized college loans and move ahead with buying homes and starting families. (... contributed to, perhaps, by older employees working longer to pad their SS income ...(since there are far fewer pensions available)).
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:06 PM
 
40 posts, read 7,336 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by k7baixo View Post
Are you sure that you got his rank correct? As a former USAF member, I wouldn’t call anyone who retired as a staff sgt qualified to do much of anything.


May have the rank wrong, it was back in 93 but he sure knew his stuff. A great hire, but then most military are.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:27 PM
 
Location: USA
1,095 posts, read 429,050 times
Reputation: 3048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky62 View Post
May have the rank wrong, it was back in 93 but he sure knew his stuff. A great hire, but then most military are.
Sounds more like a master sgt to me!

The military has a lot to do with my success and it’ll always be near and dear to my heart. I’m glad he worked out for you and thanks for giving the vet a chance.
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