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Old 08-20-2019, 08:08 AM
 
239 posts, read 73,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky62 View Post
Ageism is the last quietly accepted form of discrimination and difficult to prove. I saw it all the time in every company I worked for. Long service experienced employees were called anchors, mules, blockers etc depending on the country region. To get rid of them they would be put on "important special project teams". Funny thing about those teams, when they broke up regardless of how successful, the majority of the team members, young or old were often left to fend for themselves to look for a job. If the economy was down at the time out they went.

If there was no project then the "sesoned" employees started to get goals they could not possibly reach. After a few misses they were put on performance management plans. HR bulls**T as confessed to me by an HR friend at GE back in the early 90 as . "It's all about finding a way to get rid you you after your 40 and it being legally defensible". Back then however people got decent severance including medical coverage. Today many companies cut you off at month end and say here is COBRA or the market place. Neither being affordable for the average person with a family.

I had to fight my Corp HR group to hire people on occasion. It was not always about qualifications for them. They had their own hiring agenda handed to them. A few would fight for what the business actually needed and the reality the far flung sites faced. While I understood that no one wanted to talk about creating entry level jobs and career ladders the lack of these was the root of the problem driving unqualified people into positions too soon. All those programs both salary and hourly had been swept away by years of cost cutting.

Once I hired a retired air force staff sgt. He had a great supply background and only wanted to work another 5 years or so. The east coast corp high potentials threaten to leave or quit vs coming out to the flyover zone for a 2 year rotation and they always got away with it. The job had been open far too long and was impacting operations. I was pretty new at the time so I said the hell with it and made the offer.

He was honest about exactly what he wanted. I said great, we have a mess, so lets clean things up, get practices security and audits established and start training this woman who is junior on the team (and a local) who was showing a lot of promise as your successor. He did just that .

He got what he wanted, & we got the depart running well again and developed a local who wanted to be there. HQ still gave me crap, the VP of materials actually saying do you know how old he is? They always threatened me with "he better work out"

I do have to say his one managerial flaw, as he had after all been a staff sgt used to people obeying orders was to act like his subordinates were still military. It needed a few "hey Mike, management style discussion 3" meetings. I know so and so floated a completely dumba** idea, but we don't say it quite that way to him in a staff meeting. We say, you bring up some interesting points lets explore those off line. Remembering that make me laugh now.

It is just the way it is and has been in the major companies in the usa starting from what I saw in the late 80's and has accelerated. I used to be the young guy helping the old guy carry his box of lifetime work possessions out to his car. I knew one day it would be me so I kept nothing personal in my office. My replacement lasted 1 year before leaving the company to "seek other opportunities". The person who replaced them was a figure head. Everyone these days wants to be the top dog before they are 30 with their Jiffy Pop resumes and believe they are entitled to it with no honest experience to help or guide the people below them.

Funny thing is my crew of anchors who were pushed out kept getting called back to help when things got bad. The people that pushed them out were gone in a year.


So very true - I have experienced the exact same things. IMHO, HR and their mandates are the root of the problem. They assume old experienced candidates are either too expensive or will retire, but my experience is that 1) You get what you pay for and 2) Ambition and wanderlust are not age specific.


Younger less experienced candidates may cost less, but often lack the basic knowledge to be efficient in their job, also bring the baggage of either "single silliness" or newly married/parenting distractions.


You are correct about ageism. It's the last unprotected class. And the old tradition of children and the community respecting and taking care of their elders is long gone (if it ever really existed at all)
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:13 AM
 
239 posts, read 73,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46H View Post
One more reason older workers are "retired" (besides higher salaries and more time off) is health care. Older workers cost companies more in health care vs younger workers. This is another example of why we should not have to rely on employment for health care coverage.


This is not been my experience over the past 40+ years. Older employees, don't have maternity leave and costs, they also do not go out on the weekend and participate in dangerous activities, and younger families use up far more sick leave due to their children bring colds, flus, mumps, measles, etc. back from school/day care.


This is just another falsehood that is part of Ageism.
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:19 AM
 
239 posts, read 73,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaminade View Post
Employers do not discriminate based purely on age. There is absolutely no subjective or objective reason to do so. Younger people are typically cheaper, cheaper to insure, more likely to have the latest skills. It's a business decision.
It's not "Charley is too old, get rid of him." It's "Tran can do Charley's job for 69% as much".


In the technical world it's more like "Ramesh / Ganesh / Prakashkumar can do Charley's job for 50% cheaper"


The US may dislike immigrants from the south, but big tech companies love immigrants from Asia.
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:21 AM
 
239 posts, read 73,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanyBelle View Post
I got "retired" 3 times, once in 2009, once in 2016 (same company in 2009 and 2016, they begged me to come back in 2013 and stupid me, I did!!) and once in 2017, different company. I'm now doing independent contracting for about 20 hours a week working with the same product I trained clients on in those 3 jobs. I could probably find more work if I wanted it. I'm making almost as much as I did as a full time employee but of course I don't have paid benefits now and health insurance is expensive. I have a pretty crappy high deductible non-ACA health/dental plan for $670 a month and of course if I don't work I don't get paid, as in no vacation or holiday pay. I'm 63 so I'm just biding my time until I can go on medicare.


Every bed of roses has its thorns!
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:29 AM
 
239 posts, read 73,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
It seems like there were a LOT of older employees who got 'downsized' out the door in the 2007-2010 time-frame, but, not so much in today's economy.

Today, it seems like the issue is more at the other end of the spectrum: younger employees unable to earn sufficient income to pay-down over-sized college loans and move ahead with buying homes and starting families. (... contributed to, perhaps, by older employees working longer to pad their SS income ...(since there are far fewer pensions available)).


Somewhat true, but who says that you have to have an Ivy League degree to do a job? There are still tons of affordable state and local colleges that offer strong educations. And who says that once you graduate college you should be able to buy a home and start a family?


I know when I graduated with an engineering degree back in 1980, I was not in a financial position to get married, buy a home and start a family. I had to wait and work for those things. Part of the issue is that many young folks today want to live their parents lifestyle at the age of 21.


What happened to the concept of working for rewards?
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:53 AM
 
Location: USA
1,101 posts, read 433,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRoadkill View Post
Somewhat true, but who says that you have to have an Ivy League degree to do a job? There are still tons of affordable state and local colleges that offer strong educations. And who says that once you graduate college you should be able to buy a home and start a family?


I know when I graduated with an engineering degree back in 1980, I was not in a financial position to get married, buy a home and start a family. I had to wait and work for those things. Part of the issue is that many young folks today want to live their parents lifestyle at the age of 21.


What happened to the concept of working for rewards?
When you and I graduated, the cost of money was much more expensive than today. Not many were willing to take on such levels of debt given that cost. Today, money is cheap and there seem to be more lenders.

Uncle Sam was kind enough to take care of me for four years after high school and while I should have graduated from college around 1980, that didn't occur until early '85. In some ways, that was a blessing. I managed to miss two significant recessions while in both undergraduate and graduate school. Each time, the economy was in recovery mode when I finished each degree and finding a job was (relatively) easy.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:52 AM
 
2,318 posts, read 1,604,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRoadkill View Post
How many people that have retired in the last few years have done so, just because they could no longer find a job?


I had the crazy idea that once I got closer to retirement age I would find a new job in the area I wanted to retire to. After a couple years that changed to find a job close enough to the area I wanted to retire to, that I could stand the commute for five or so years.


Now after a few more years its become, stay where I am and pray for a miracle!


It seems after you reach sixty, no one has any interest in you for any position. We are too old to move up, too old to step down and too old to stay where we are!


Becoming a hermit is looking better everyday.



I think some, not all but a large group of older workers, only look for work that they have been doing for years. They want to stay in their comfort zone. They try for a few years then give up and say there's no work to be found. I was forced out during the last recession and my field was no longer in demand. I started a business at the beginning of the recession with no experience in the field. I plan on working it until my wife and I are ready to start the next chapter in our lives. No job create your own.
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Old 08-20-2019, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,872 posts, read 49,783,101 times
Reputation: 19396
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRoadkill View Post
Forced Retirement?



How many people that have retired in the last few years have done so, just because they could no longer find a job?
My employer [US Navy] has a High-Year-Tenure [HYT] policy.

For each pay-grade that you advance to, there is a set limit to how many years you can stay on Active Duty. When I reached 20 years, I was forced onto pension.

I can no longer work within my career field.
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:29 PM
 
7,024 posts, read 3,972,965 times
Reputation: 16049
Health insurance costs employers more the older their employees get. My mom was let go from a small company when she turned 62 because of the increase.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:32 AM
46H
 
993 posts, read 605,685 times
Reputation: 1931
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRoadkill View Post
This is not been my experience over the past 40+ years. Older employees, don't have maternity leave and costs, they also do not go out on the weekend and participate in dangerous activities, and younger families use up far more sick leave due to their children bring colds, flus, mumps, measles, etc. back from school/day care.


This is just another falsehood that is part of Ageism.

Your experience has nothing to do with facts. Health insurance for older employees costs companies more money than younger employees.
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