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Old 08-21-2019, 04:20 PM
 
52,515 posts, read 42,212,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
If you intend to keep working after 60 (need to or desire to) get that job before then.
HAVE it, be IN the position, when you cross those age marks.
The big layoffs our company had a while back disproportionately hit older workers, so there is that.
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:35 PM
 
7,610 posts, read 8,813,206 times
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I've worked for companies that did frequent RIFs, twice a year on average and some more often than that. Often the first wave included some older or longtime employees who were ready to or willing to take a package and leave. The following waves included some older or longtime employees though perhaps with not as generous a package as the first wave. Depending on the size of the RIF the company has to report stats on who got laid off: age, length of service, gender, title or band level. Cost is a large component because RIFs tend to occur when the company isn't going to meet their quarterly or yearly commitments to the board of directors and has shareholders and Wall St. closely watching.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:49 PM
 
571 posts, read 120,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lottamoxie View Post
I made no mention of "enough engineers" in the US or elsewhere. You're addressing someone's points, but not any of the ones I made.
That's correct, my apologies.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:57 PM
 
571 posts, read 120,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwalkr View Post
Easy to just blame the colored folks, rather than own up to what one can do to secure and retain employment.
I thought it was pretty clear that foreign nationals are just one of the issues that cause both downward wage pressure and difficulties in putting together a full career in some industries (in addition to rampant cultural ageism, healthcare expenses, etc.). Dunno how anyone could argue with that.

No doubt you can 'secure and retain employment', but Walmart greeter jobs have their own issues.

Generally, the second that US workers of various types were competing with the world via H1Bs, illegal alien workers, outsourcing, you've got something of a problem. A rising tide may lift all boats, but there's a heckuva lot of boats....especially when you consider their relative level of income. Add in different flavors of automation, and the magic really begins to start.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:40 PM
Status: "Living the Dream" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Tennessee
34 posts, read 15,165 times
Reputation: 125
Another issue is new managers that are totally clueless. They have the new job based on their degree but, have absolutely zero real world knowledge in the field.

They often feel threatened by the old timers who know what they are doing. Getting rid of the old timers is simply self preservation in their view.
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Old 08-22-2019, 08:34 PM
 
1,172 posts, read 362,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawberrySoup View Post
It's sure easy to run into IRS issues though. Companies that want FTE equivalents under contract have something of a problem.

In terms of 'the US doesn't have enough engineers', I think that simply isn't true. It tends to be the sort of opinion that comes reading Forbes rather than seeing it in action.

Some companies can be a small-scale version of the mass immigration problem. Once a beachhead of people are hired, typically from South Asia, you can essentially count on most/all new hires to come from a similar area once the management wall is breached.
American does have enough engineers. Forbes and corporations don't want to pay decent wages so they go on about shortages to pressure politicians into letting more H1B's in.

This is very true. Many multi-national companies hire foreign CEO's (like MasterCard). These new CEO recruit their senior management with the same background. It goes down the line.

A new broom sweeps clean. The oldest are swept away first.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:41 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,046 posts, read 8,865,815 times
Reputation: 3860
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawberrySoup View Post
I thought it was pretty clear that foreign nationals are just one of the issues that cause both downward wage pressure and difficulties in putting together a full career in some industries (in addition to rampant cultural ageism, healthcare expenses, etc.). Dunno how anyone could argue with that.

No doubt you can 'secure and retain employment', but Walmart greeter jobs have their own issues.

Generally, the second that US workers of various types were competing with the world via H1Bs, illegal alien workers, outsourcing, you've got something of a problem. A rising tide may lift all boats, but there's a heckuva lot of boats....especially when you consider their relative level of income. Add in different flavors of automation, and the magic really begins to start.
I work in aerospace throughout my career. When I was a young engineer, an older engineer complained that "foreigners" were willing to take a lower pay to work in this country and that drove the "market rate" for engineers down. Many years later, he was still bitter about that.

Those "foreigners" turned out to be a bunch British aerospace engineers. After WW II, they came to the US in droves seeking employment.

So I am sure when posters complain about H-1B tech workers from Southeast Asia today, there was no racism intended. It was a matter of economic of being forced to compete with lower wage workers.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:00 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,046 posts, read 8,865,815 times
Reputation: 3860
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyrebel View Post
Another issue is new managers that are totally clueless. They have the new job based on their degree but, have absolutely zero real world knowledge in the field.

They often feel threatened by the old timers who know what they are doing. Getting rid of the old timers is simply self preservation in their view.
That is very true. I worked for a federal agency, NASA, until earlier this year. Being a federal agency, there is little they can do to fire you unless you surf porn sites at work or falsify your time sheet. But management do not like it when the older, wiser, more experienced engineers pointing out their approach to the national Space program is on the wrong track, wasteful, and just down right stupid. So they reassigned the older engineers to meaningless tasks, not giving them responsibility, to the point older engineers just say f*ck it, I am not having fun at work anymore. By this time, older workers have earned a reasonable pension on top of their TSP (federal version of 401K). So they just retired. For every retirees I spoke with last year, virtually everyone retired out of boredom. I just had dinner with a colleague, he needs another 3 years before he can retire but he's not looking forward to being "brain dead" for another 3 years.

Considering this is NASA, voted as the best place to work in a federal agency for 5 years in a row. I'd hate to imagine what it's like to work in other federal agencies.
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:41 AM
 
242 posts, read 75,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
That is very true. I worked for a federal agency, NASA, until earlier this year. Being a federal agency, there is little they can do to fire you unless you surf porn sites at work or falsify your time sheet. But management do not like it when the older, wiser, more experienced engineers pointing out their approach to the national Space program is on the wrong track, wasteful, and just down right stupid. So they reassigned the older engineers to meaningless tasks, not giving them responsibility, to the point older engineers just say f*ck it, I am not having fun at work anymore. By this time, older workers have earned a reasonable pension on top of their TSP (federal version of 401K). So they just retired. For every retirees I spoke with last year, virtually everyone retired out of boredom. I just had dinner with a colleague, he needs another 3 years before he can retire but he's not looking forward to being "brain dead" for another 3 years.

Considering this is NASA, voted as the best place to work in a federal agency for 5 years in a row. I'd hate to imagine what it's like to work in other federal agencies.


Amen... I worked for NASA as a Lockheed employee most of my career and the RIFs were monthly. And I witnessed this culling of senior employees first hand over numerous years.


Civil servants can't be "fired", so they have to be pushed out, however the bulk of the work is performed by commercial aerospace companies and they are often coerced by NASA to cut costs and bring in "fresh graduates" (Its the biggest unreported secret about our federal government. While Washington is claiming they are creating jobs, they are forcing hundreds of lay-offs in the private sector)


Ageism is very much alive and legal and the last group that can be openly discriminated against.


I am not one of those old farts that lives through their job and or feels I am so important that its my duty to keep on working.
I would have retired years ago, but as an engineer I've never had the salary or savings that would allow early retirement. Couple that with rising prices, shrinking salaries and on again / off again economy and I will need to work until I have reached the government specified retirement age of 67. With any luck that will be a few months before I kick the bucket, so at least I can finally get a decent vacation in before I go!
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:14 AM
 
179 posts, read 95,892 times
Reputation: 560
My husband was forced into early retirement due to his health. He had been on disability for a year and when he returned to work as a senior level R&D engineer the company had been purchased by another. He continued to work for another year but at the age of 60 was suddenly laid off. At the time he wanted to find a new position and started to look but his health began to go downhill again and he has remained retired. It's been 7 years.
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