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Old 05-22-2008, 10:00 AM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,955,483 times
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AS the law in Mass. show many will not buy halth care even if they can afford it. That is why Obama is against making it manatory. many young peole find it better to not buy and use the money for other thngs they need it seems.Sicko was just propaganda like all radicals on both sides.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes + some
2,885 posts, read 1,513,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amyalta View Post
Absolutely - how can you find much fault with a system which covers children 100%?

OP - how about moving to the UK? We have a great, free health care system here - don't listen to the myths, as with Canada, just go for the truth! I am 57 & have very high BP, high cholesterol, am on HRT, have glaucoma - all these are treated, wonderfully, for free - and my 8 medications cost only 92 a year (about $175) - and that is for 8 separate things, all taken twice daily. When we need to see a doctor, we call & get in the same day, and usually see the doctor who has been our trusted family physician for 14 years - he looked after me through 3 pregnancies.

Come on over - we actually have public transport, too! Just yesterday my son and I went to the Tate Modern gallery and strolled along the Thames - half an hour from home, journey by train cost 4.50 for me, free for him.
It's just as difficult to relocate to the UK as it is to Canada.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:17 AM
 
1,861 posts, read 3,024,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
AS the law in Mass. show many will not buy halth care even if they can afford it. That is why Obama is against making it manatory. many young peole find it better to not buy and use the money for other thngs they need it seems.Sicko was just propaganda like all radicals on both sides.
They are fined when they claim their taxes, if they don't have healthcare. We all have to prove we have it (in Mass).
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,686 posts, read 49,462,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillietta View Post
It's just as difficult to relocate to the UK as it is to Canada.
When I was stationed in Scotland [it was the home-port on my boat for six years, then later I owned a home and lived there for three years], I had friends who married local girls and became dual-cits.

Also I have known men who got local jobs there, and when they left the Navy, they were able to continue in their homes in the area as civilians. So I assume that they were able to immigrate through some method.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Lakeland, Florida
6,973 posts, read 12,492,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
AS the law in Mass. show many will not buy halth care even if they can afford it. That is why Obama is against making it manatory. many young peole find it better to not buy and use the money for other thngs they need it seems.Sicko was just propaganda like all radicals on both sides.
I don't live in Mass but am originally from there. All of my relatives in Mass must have health insurance. There is a fine for any resident that does not have insurance.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes + some
2,885 posts, read 1,513,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
When I was stationed in Scotland [it was the home-port on my boat for six years, then later I owned a home and lived there for three years], I had friends who married local girls and became dual-cits.

Also I have known men who got local jobs there, and when they left the Navy, they were able to continue in their homes in the area as civilians. So I assume that they were able to immigrate through some method.
Yes, that is one of the criteria - marriage.
Also, it was much easier 30 years ago to immigrate than it is now.
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Old 05-24-2008, 09:09 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,955,483 times
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Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
They are fined when they claim their taxes, if they don't have healthcare. We all have to prove we have it (in Mass).

But they still don't have it;the numbers are in the millions just relessed. Then the system is also out fo funds.Kind of like fining people for tickets;what if they don't apy . Its too expensive to jail them and most place will not jail for a fine only law. Its like tickets people maybe jailed but tehyn they are released hours later on a appearance bond paying nothing until tehy are caught agin. Round and round;with peole owning thousands of dollars.
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:04 PM
 
2,348 posts, read 3,925,567 times
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How does anyone figure it is free health care? You all ever see the taxes paid for that free care? Nothing free about it.

Sorry, but the pro-universal crowd forgets one thing, profit spurs innovation. Without profit, there is little motivation in finding new treatments and creating new equipment for people.

The US is the center for medical research, thanks in part of the profits received. Our doctors are the best in the world and people from all over the world come here for treatment.

I have lived in the UK and I will take the hospitals in the US any day over the ones in the UK.

More and more people each day are having a harder time taking responsibility for themselves, rather place it on everyone else.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:28 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,276,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k350 View Post
How does anyone figure it is free health care? You all ever see the taxes paid for that free care? Nothing free about it.

Sorry, but the pro-universal crowd forgets one thing, profit spurs innovation. Without profit, there is little motivation in finding new treatments and creating new equipment for people.

The US is the center for medical research, thanks in part of the profits received. Our doctors are the best in the world and people from all over the world come here for treatment.

I have lived in the UK and I will take the hospitals in the US any day over the ones in the UK.

More and more people each day are having a harder time taking responsibility for themselves, rather place it on everyone else.
Our system offers the best care in the world - if you can afford it. If you have money for chemo treatments for your child, you will get the best of the best - and if you don't have the money, well, I guess you are out of luck. (Yes, I have a true story to back that up). (I'm talking about working people here).

I agree with most of what you said. Excellent medical care is available. But if you don't have the cash, there's a great likelihood you will not be treated long-term, or will receive limited, sub-par care. Maybe that's the same in every country in the world, I don't know.

You are well aware, I'm sure, that one medical catastrophe can devastate a family or person financially. Not being able to afford care is not always about people failing to accept responsibility for themselves.(and there's my triple-negative for the day!)

I don't count myself entirely in the pro-universal crowd as such, if that's supposed to mean (as I think you are implying) - "everything's free!" -everyone is entitled to good care, not just to the level of what they can afford. That to me is not what our country is supposed to be all about.

The medical community in our country is run and owned by insurance companies, not doctors, not scientists, and not innovators. I have no illusions about how much control doctors actually have.

Like someone said before, less-than-perfect medicine is better than nothing.

TimtheGuy, why don't you check on the cost of catastrophic health care? You must think that it's less expensive then preventative care coverage - it is not. Here's an interesting book: Fast Food Nation. It has nothing to do with Hollywood, and there's nothing liberal about it.

Something has to be done for people who have worked their whole lives; while there are systems in place for those who are either illegal or who have managed not to work for one reason or another.

I knew of one such person (i.e., illegal) who was Lifeflighted to a trauma hospital. Her entire bill was written off. If that were me, I'd still be paying the bill!

But they saved her life...and I am thankful for that.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Southeast
4,296 posts, read 6,273,570 times
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With medical care you get what you pay for. If you are under a universal healthcare system, there is NO incentive to provide latest/up-to-date equipment. There was a report done by the NYT about how the systems of some Socialist nations are decades behind the US as far as medical technology is concerned.

As much as it pains me to say, there are A LOT more non-working people in the US who would take out much more than put into the system. Another easy trillion to our debt counter.

You need to remember the politics bogus that goes with it to, you know how bad our government is at managing and taking care of things, and you really want them in control of our health? They've done such a fine job with nationalized education.. Also realize that if someone refuses to stop smoking, diet, do physical therapy, etc. then all of a sudden they are a 'waste' of taxpayer money.

The problem with the US' current system is availability, not quality.
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