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Old 05-27-2008, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,682 posts, read 49,449,101 times
Reputation: 19134

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBee View Post
May we now refer to you as Dr. Forest, or Dr. Beekeeper??? Both seem fitting. ...
Thanks, I only meant to point out a few of the issues with a government provided 'universal' health care.

I wasn't going to say more, but since you are a SeaBee, here goes:

Consider a med school student, too much drinking too much chasing the skirts, and his grades drop. Below a 'C' and even though the school will not boot him out, he is facing losing his scholarships. Whatever will he do? But wait! There is an employer! With a an HRO recruiter on campus, Sign a contract and that employer will provide a full-tuition scholarship, they don't care about your GPA just keep it above an 'F'. A guaranteed scholarship, and a job practicing medicine for six years after your graduation.

Plus! there is more! No internship! No student residency! When you grad from medical school, you go immediately to your new employer, and instantly you are a 'doctor'. Put in charge of a medical clinic, a Division Officer in charge of 15 Corpsmen. The Corpsmen treat patients while you attend executive meetings, and do paperwork in your office. The corpsmen working for you may 'consult' with you when they see what they do not understand in a patient's prognosis, but you are in charge! And after six years of this, while your old class-mates have been sweating and straining in a teaching hospital, you can walk out as a fully fledged doctor who has already been 'practicing' for the past six years.



Oh yes, government provided 'universal' health care is great!
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Looking over your shoulder
30,335 posts, read 27,795,867 times
Reputation: 81257
Thumbs up Do nothing and it'll be worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBee View Post
So may we assume that you have insurance coverage through work?

I am now retired, so this may be more of a concern to me than you, if that's the case. When I had a (very well-paying) job, our insurance was entirely covered...and yes, I too felt it was the best there was. Such a deal. I barely spent $300 per year out of pocket for health, dental and eyecare.

It's easy to become complacent when costs like that are covered by someone else. Many companies are no longer offering health insurance. To tell someone to just get a job where they pay your insurance is a bit out of step with the times.

Even where I worked, they started taking about $100 out of employees' pay to help cover the over whelming costs of insurance. Now, living on a retiree's pension, and barely being able to cover the cost for minimum coverage, I find that $100 kind of laughable.

Former co-workers who retired "very smartly" are paying much more than I. Costs are easily $1200+ for a couple, case in point. That is $1200+ per month, with the cost going up every year. Their deductible is over $3,500 per year. You will not find anything cheaper that offers full coverage.

Point being that something is wrong with our system. Get a major illness with health coverage and you'll be alright. Get a major illness with no health coverage, and you will not even be able to afford the medicine.

Not every person may be as fortunate as you or I.

I've been lucky health wise, and that I can even afford insurance. I appreciate my good fortune.
I can sure agree with SeeBee’s thoughts here. I also know of too many friends who are paying $1200 + per month for insurance and they get very bad coverage for medical only.

The insurance is only a “part” of the health care problems in America. If we can see a doctor we might have a good chance of getting some good care but most American’s can’t afford insurance any longer nor can they afford to visit the doctors office. Most people are just trying to make ends meet and the cost of medical is too much for them. They’ll let something go untreated and it only becomes worse and life threatening.

America has health care problems and it’s time to look at what other countries are doing and copying what works best. The system can be fixed and made better; if not if we bury our heads and do nothing ~ the system will continue to become worse.

There are myths that taxes will go up, that you won’t get to see the doctor of choice, that you’ll wait for long periods of time for medical service, these are just myths. Things don’t have to be that way, and if the health care is remodeled properly ~ everyone can have better health care and a lower cost. Yes,, my taxes and yours could go up to pay for the health care; however look at what you pay for insurance NOW plus you pay for out of pocket costs as well and deductibles.

The system is screwed up and I for one will support anything that might work better.

And yes,, there are people who will have horror stories about how bad socialized health care can be. Don’t listen to them, YOU need to research and get the facts instead. There are always exceptions and a down side ~ nothing is 100% perfect, but is 90% get better health care then it’s an improvement over what we have now.

Just my 2 cents and a little more.


If it isn't broken don't fix it ~ however the system IS broken!
FRONTLINE:sick around the world | PBS
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:44 PM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,274,320 times
Reputation: 4238
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Thanks, I only meant to point out a few of the issues with a government provided 'universal' health care.

I wasn't going to say more, but since you are a SeaBee, here goes:

Consider a med school student, too much drinking too much chasing the skirts, and his grades drop. Below a 'C' and even though the school will not boot him out, he is facing losing his scholarships. Whatever will he do? But wait! There is an employer! With a an HRO recruiter on campus, Sign a contract and that employer will provide a full-tuition scholarship, they don't care about your GPA just keep it above an 'F'. A guaranteed scholarship, and a job practicing medicine for six years after your graduation.

Plus! there is more! No internship! No student residency! When you grad from medical school, you go immediately to your new employer, and instantly you are a 'doctor'. Put in charge of a medical clinic, a Division Officer in charge of 15 Corpsmen. The Corpsmen treat patients while you attend executive meetings, and do paperwork in your office. The corpsmen working for you may 'consult' with you when they see what they do not understand in a patient's prognosis, but you are in charge! And after six years of this, while your old class-mates have been sweating and straining in a teaching hospital, you can walk out as a fully fledged doctor who has already been 'practicing' for the past six years.

Oh yes, government provided 'universal' health care is great!
So, on a serious side, are you telling me that's what we have in VA Hospitals, passing as doctors? Or has that changed? I only know of one man, WWII vet, who visits a VA hospital in Texas for his skin cancer. When I last saw him a few years back, I was shocked by the rather crude scars on his face. Honest-to-God, I thought I could've stiched up a better job. Didn't much bother him, though. I think he'd been through too much to care about appearances.

Well, after this maybe my calling you a doc wasn't such a compliment after all! Doesn't seem like much of a compliment with this kind of history, but it was meant as one. I am impressed by people who can take care of themselves and their families when the necessity arises (such as stiching your son's face back together). It's the kind of thing that we could all stand to learn about.

All's I'm saying here is that something needs to be done with a growing class of people not being able to cover med expenses. Hard-working, good people who deserve not to be forced to go to hacks for health care. I don't know the answer, wish I did.

I'm done with this healh care issue here...I just don't know the answer. But I wish good luck to all our grandchildren who'll deal with the remnants. Guess, like with what you did, we'll go on.

Oh, I'm not now, nor ever was a SeaBee, although my dad was. It's kind of in memoria to him.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:19 PM
 
Location: northeast US
739 posts, read 1,882,633 times
Reputation: 446
People can argue the talking points on universal health care or not universal health care all they want. Bottom line is, medical care is very expensive. Either we view our fellow humans as expendable, or we have compassion and give them health care.

If you're not young and sick, eventually you'll be old and infirm. What goes around comes around. How do you want it to be? Like Canada; everyone gets taken care of. Or America, one in five have no coverage and your turn might come around someday.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:45 PM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,274,320 times
Reputation: 4238
Quote:
Originally Posted by willdufauve View Post
People can argue the talking points on universal health care or not universal health care all they want. Bottom line is, medical care is very expensive. Either we view our fellow humans as expendable, or we have compassion and give them health care.

If you're not young and sick, eventually you'll be old and infirm. What goes around comes around. How do you want it to be? Like Canada; everyone gets taken care of. Or America, one in five have no coverage and your turn might come around someday.
Short and succinct..I believe no human being is expendable. One in five with no insurance - that's a national disgrace. Yup, that's what I was trying to say...you never know when your turn is coming.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:15 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,051,697 times
Reputation: 2141
Experience with military hospitals and especially dependent care dose not translate to what a universal health care system would be like. Having been nearly killed myself as a dependent when I was a kid in a military hospital, I know what the care can be like.

My mother has plenty of horror stories to tell and whenever she could, she made my father accompany her in uniform so she was marked as an officer's wife. The heavy hierarchical structure of the military could bring out some pretty bad treatment. In my own case, the orderlies wouldn't call the doctor while I sat in a ball on the floor in intense pain - acute appendicitis. Finally at about 730, they brought out a wheelchair so I wouldn't look quite so pitiful as people came in for work. It was the chief surgeon who walked thru the door, took one look at me and screamed at the orderly - why in the hell didn't you call me? You get this girl prepped for surgery this instant. 15 minutes later it was out. The surgeon said if it had been another 15 minutes, it would have blown. So in my case, it was the doctor who was good and the orderlies who were incompetent and really uncaring.

Other countries that have universal care don't run it like the military does.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,682 posts, read 49,449,101 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBee View Post
So, on a serious side, are you telling me that's what we have in VA Hospitals, passing as doctors? Or has that changed? I only know of one man, WWII vet, who visits a VA hospital in Texas for his skin cancer. When I last saw him a few years back, I was shocked by the rather crude scars on his face. Honest-to-God, I thought I could've stiched up a better job. Didn't much bother him, though. I think he'd been through too much to care about appearances. ...
Recruiters on are campus; sign-up for a 6 year term of Active Duty and your tuition is paid. That is the system and has been for many decades.

Without this system what doctor would ever go into the military? or a VA hospital?
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,687 posts, read 33,690,741 times
Reputation: 51892
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN View Post
PBS has an interesting documentary that provides some of the identical information that was found in the Sicko documentary. Frontline, “Sick Around the World” covers a good deal of the information about health care in other countries. You can read the interviews, discussions and even view parts of the documentary online or order the DVD disc.


FRONTLINE:sick around the world | PBS

From what I’m seeing and reading the US health care has some areas to improve in and they could learn a great deal from other countries. The bottom line is people who live there are happy with their care and services that the health care system is providing them. I don’t hear the same types of comments about our US health care and there are never any positive comments about our insurance companies. NEVER.
PBS, another thing that taxpayers pay for that we don't need.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:36 PM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,274,320 times
Reputation: 4238
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
PBS, another thing that taxpayers pay for that we don't need.
Aw, c'mon now. Where else will I ever get to hear some of the greatest operatic voices of all time? Just can't afford that little trip to La Scala, or the Metropolitan Opera, or the Smithsonian. Shoot, they even had a special on Rob Thomas! There are theatre performances put on PBS all the time & travel shows to places most of us will never see.

You might not care for some of their programming, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There are thousands of people who would never have the exposure to art or travel, unless it were for PBS.

Hmmm, not sure what this has to do with Health Care...I know! It's all good health for the soul.

Seriously, is PBS funded by tax dollars in your state?
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Looking over your shoulder
30,335 posts, read 27,795,867 times
Reputation: 81257
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
PBS, another thing that taxpayers pay for that we don't need.
Citizens can always afford information ~ lack of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Well it is getting off topic, but PBS provides many programs and editorials that would otherwise not be covered in the mainstream news media, thus removing the opportunity to hear or view something other then one sided propaganda.

I’m sure that PBS would disappear if quality programming were provided by one the major networks.

And of cause a question ~ did you watch Frontline Sick Around the World? What did you think? It seems to show that our medical health care is in trouble and that there are some worth while considerations to fixing it. Maybe we can find the good items and put them to use here.

~ ~ ~

AP Quote:

Quote:
Medicare $1.2 Trillion
Social Security $900 Billion
Civil Servant Retirement $106 Billion
Veteran Benefits $34 Billion

Economist Dean Baker stated that the huge liabilities are potentially misleading because future generations will have greater income. “If we fix health care, then our deficits can be easily dealt with.”
Staggering numbers but it can be managed with proper attention and fewer lobbyists paying off our elected officials.

Back on topic,,, Kathleenh54 ~ you don’t need to move to a foreign country like Canada or elsewhere to have good medical health care. It’s here in America but only if you can get it. No citizen should have to leave the country to acquire health care! No citizen should have to become bankrupted trying to cover the cost of medical attention. No citizen should have to be turned away because they can’t afford insurance, medical bills or prescription drugs.
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