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Old 06-14-2008, 03:13 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,524 posts, read 39,903,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightcopperkettles View Post
How does one start a tree farm? ...
Check with the County Extension Agent, some states they are also the 'forester' (at least they are in WA, where you last were, and hopefully not still)... BUT... It is very important to get that info from your desired destination, as available processing / transportation / market / and species vary A LOT. Tho If you are still in WA, check out some of the intensive tree farming being done near Longview and west to the coast (and probably closer to you near Gray's Harbor, Hood Canal). I was at a regional 'sustainable energy / farming for food and fuel' seminar recently and the tree farm folks gave a great presentation, and included info from their operations in the SE USA.

I have friends that do various forest practices + there are a lot of things changing with the market and the tree stocks. There is a lot of emphasis on sustainable forest practices, and cellulosic bio-mass, and hardwood replacement + pulp stocks. Christmas trees are VERY labor intensive (especially trimming and forming), then harvest and replant, and you need to prepare for that exertion / learning curve. The market is very fickle too. U-cut is unmanageable to maintain a decent and healthy perpetual stock. Some people do very well in this market tho, but due to the labor and distribution I would be very cautious. There are some very profitable pulp and "poplar" hardwood stocks if you are close to processing.

I will try to dig up info when I get back home (in a week), but search for tree farming, Longview, WA and Clatskanie and Boardman, OR
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Old 06-14-2008, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,460,873 times
Reputation: 27565
Also check your state for Agricultural/Conservation programs where they will reimburse you a percentage of the cost of setting your land up.

There's also some national ones with state specific guidelines.

Here's a link to one of them:

NRCS Conservation Programs | NRCS
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Old 06-14-2008, 10:18 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,315,512 times
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For most people retiring on $12,000 per yr. is just not going to happen. That is the point. Put yourself in the Governments position, you owe the taxpayers trillions of dollars you have already spent and it will break your budget to even attempt to pay. What is the answer? You engineer an economy which makes it impossible to retire, and then you ladder out Social Security so that it always looks like retirement is only a few more years ahead. You dangle the carrot in front of everyone’s face until they finally keel over, (still working) and never do get to collect any Social Security. Problem solved.
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Old 06-14-2008, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,669 posts, read 49,416,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
For most people retiring on $12,000 per yr. is just not going to happen.
Will it work for everyone? No.

Can it work? yes.

Each one of us is an individual. Each one of us makes his/her own financial choices.

Choose to maintain a $100k/year lifestyle, and then $12k/year is not going to cut it.

Most people in our culture are big spenders, high consumers, in a throw-away society. Can they prosper on $12k/annum? likely not.

But it is still possible for the individual.
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Old 06-14-2008, 11:37 AM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,880,155 times
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But the fact is that many now can retire even before SS. In the past few people really retired and when they did they lived with their kids in oreder to do it. I frankly don't see SS going under but their will be changes like reducitons and working longer in the future,. fterall people in at the turn of the century in 1900 could only look at less than 50 years of age. Now people are looking at 75 and even longer in the future.It is reality that the SS system has always been a pay-go system.This problem pales in comparison to teh medicaare and medicaaid problems. Niow they wat to tack on another program called universal heathcare?
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:44 PM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,270,056 times
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Question BeeKeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Will it work for everyone? No.

Can it work? yes.

Each one of us is an individual. Each one of us makes his/her own financial choices.

Choose to maintain a $100k/year lifestyle, and then $12k/year is not going to cut it.

Most people in our culture are big spenders, high consumers, in a throw-away society. Can they prosper on $12k/annum? likely not.

But it is still possible for the individual.
I am in agreement with your choices and your lifestyle. But since you are so generous in anwering questions, I have one for you. I have no debt, and live, by choice a very frugal lifestyle. I cook a lot, I use the library and don't buy books, etc.

I worked very hard to get out of debt, and stay that way. It makes me a lot happier to not owe anybody. So, I am finding some difficulty in being able to purchase a retirement home (yes, I have a dream of a few acres) on such a limited income, which is a bit more than $12K.

You prepared well in advance, and knew what you were looking for, it seems. I only stated preparing about one year before I actually retired. A little late start. I have one more year to stay in Portland, as I am in school. Beyond that, what would be your suggestions be to places to check out for possibly finding a place to purchase? Where the cost of living is relatively inexpensive? Any ideas or thoughts? Thanks.
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Old 06-14-2008, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,669 posts, read 49,416,421 times
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I see it as being harder for folks who insist on living urban lifestyles. Everything costs more in the city. Whereas the rural cost-of-living is much lower.

For folks into the organic farming scenario, I have recommended the apprenticeships that are available.

In this area many organic farms or CSAs operate apprenticeship programs in cooperation with the organic certifying agency's Journeyman program.

I know farmers who have been in apprenticeship - journeyman programs in local farms in this area; where they have gotten into ownership. Two of them were accepted into a joint-partnership with the elder farm manager at the farm where they apprenticed.

I have a newspaper on my desk listing a dozen more who are in line to be 'matched' with farms [I have no idea of how they are doing the financing], but I know that it does involve CSAs.

I was able to buy our farm, using cash from our portfolio. This place cost me $900/acre. Though across the road where my SIL bought land at cost her $300/acre. [I have riverfrontage, she does not]

A friend of ours that we are having dinner with this evening, is looking at buying a farmhouse with only 2 acres for $29k. Once greenhouses are going they should be able to support themselves.

On the other hand, we have done well buying apartment buildings. We have never made a down payment when buying them. My SIL has been looking at apartment buildings during the past week. It is very tempting! A song and a dance can get you a 5-rental building filled with college students.
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Atlanta suburb
4,728 posts, read 9,084,908 times
Reputation: 3463
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
But the fact is that many now can retire even before SS. In the past few people really retired and when they did they lived with their kids in oreder to do it. I frankly don't see SS going under but their will be changes like reducitons and working longer in the future,. fterall people in at the turn of the century in 1900 could only look at less than 50 years of age. Now people are looking at 75 and even longer in the future.It is reality that the SS system has always been a pay-go system.This problem pales in comparison to teh medicaare and medicaaid problems. Niow they wat to tack on another program called universal heathcare?
The ones that I worry about in the future, texdav, are the young people in their 20s and 30s now who think that they have all the time in the world to get those retirement plans and 401Ks started.

They don't realize just how quickly retirement sneaks up on you. Nor do they realize that unforeseen circumstances can change things in a major flash.

Things like divorce, death, long-term illnesses, 4 kids to put through college, m-i-l moving in, etc. All of these things can take the wind out of your sails when it comes to saving for retirement.

These young people most probably will not have SS to give them a little to lean on, let alone to live on.

I look at my 4 sons, 3 of whom are in the work force, one still in college, and I see the responsibility that the 3 oldest ones have taken upon themselves since starting families. They are between 30 and 38 and are probably in better shape to retire than most folks are at 62 right now.

I hope they are not the exception in their generation. They are living quite comfortably, raising families, but taking advantage of every opportunity to save through their employment and independent savings plans. I have no fears for them.

I hope that parents today are preparing their children for the day that they might retire with no or little government assistance. If and when that happens, we will see a major financial burden put on our economy and federal fiscal budget. It will pay to keep SS alive and well in the long run.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:07 AM
 
Location: Canada
1 posts, read 2,982 times
Reputation: 11
Default You can retire..

Yes you can retire if you know how to secure your future definitely.

To do that, you simply need an automatic system. A system that works for you for the "Long-Term" life.

How?

Do not spend all your money on just one interest.. Do not be the "Consumer Guru".

$12 000 is not a big fortune. But, you can turn it definitely into a fortune.

You need to invest on one [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2]effective and easy to follow system to achieve your goal and turn your $12 000 into a real Fortune.

In fact, any one can turn a $12 000/year into $70 000 or $1 million / year.

So, I think the
[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] "How to retire on $12,000 a year" is just the "shortcut" of

"How to implement a system that can turn $12,000 a year into a fortune?"

Is that easy!?

To be continued...
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:34 AM
 
1,861 posts, read 3,023,768 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
For most people retiring on $12,000 per yr. is just not going to happen. That is the point. Put yourself in the Governments position, you owe the taxpayers trillions of dollars you have already spent and it will break your budget to even attempt to pay. What is the answer? You engineer an economy which makes it impossible to retire, and then you ladder out Social Security so that it always looks like retirement is only a few more years ahead. You dangle the carrot in front of everyone’s face until they finally keel over, (still working) and never do get to collect any Social Security. Problem solved.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Brilliant plan, eh?

I was born in 1950, and in order to get the highest benefits of social security, I have to work until I'm 70. Now - imagine someone who was born in 1980, for example - I suppose the age will eventually go up so high no one can ever retire at all - it'll be 100. And, what with companies no longer having pensions, and healthcare costs going up, and food and gas and utilities going up, etc., many people will just have to work until they drop dead, as you say. If you make it to 100, you might have a few years left after retiring.

And, at that point, the president won't even send a birthday card when you turn 100 - you'll have to make it to 110 for that!
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