Maintaining two homes in retirement (55, weather, moving, Canada)

[MJRinCA]

Although Iv'e been reading the board for awhile and have found loads of good information, I haven't found anything regarding my question, which concerns maintaining two homes in retirement. A bit of background: My wife and I will be retiring in October of this year. I'm 55, she is 50. We currently live in the bay area but will be moving upon retirement. Our winter residence will be in Indio, CA, in the Palm Springs area. Our summer home (and primary residence) will be in Sparks, NV, just outside of Reno. We purchased the home in SoCal about 2 years ago and it's ready for us to move in. We're in escrow on the home in Sparks and it'll close later this month. We'll spend the month of October getting it ready (furniture, etc), then we'll head down to SoCal for the winter.

My questions are around maintaining two homes in retirement. I'm interested in the experiences of anyone who is doing that now. It's not rocket science, what I'm after are pretty simple things like:

-How do you manage your mail? (do you have someone forward it to you)
-Do you keep cable TV and broadband turned on at both houses year round?
-Do you turn off things like garbage collection while you're away?
-Do you use a service to check on the unoccupied house while you're away?
-What things do you take with you between houses? (passports, important documents, computer, etc)
-Do you leave one vehicle at each house and use a third to travel between them? (that's what we're planning to do)
-While at one house, do you regularly travel to the other to "check on it"?
-What sort of unexpected problems have you encountered?

We really see this as the best of both worlds. We love both areas and this allows us to escape the bad weather in both locations. We're fine financially (expenses for these two houses combined are less than our current house in the bay area), and we have medical coverage that works in both locations. We've been planning our retirement for 10 years and while I'm sure we'll find many things we hadn't planned for, this is the one I'd really like some advice on as opposed to discovering it as we go along.

By the way, the two houses are ~550 miles apart and we can get between them with a 1.5 hr flight or 9 hr drive. As we move from one to the other we'll drive so we'll have two vehicles while we're there.

[StealthRabbit]

I'm planning on doing this with 3 places across the US, but have not done so yet. I have friends that do this.

Transition as much stuff 'on-line' as possible (bill-pay, premium notices...)
Mail; if you have a nice neighbor you can give them a packet of mailers, and instruction for anything urgent (IRS...) - if not you can get a PO Box, and mailing service at primary destination (NV I assume for tax reasons)

Garbage, papers, cable often get turned off. You can switch to a mobile Broadband card (EVDO) for computer and use a wireless router in each location, and have BB while traveling.

You should hire a neighbor or hire a service to watch the house while you are away (offer to pay their garbage bill or something regular but seemingly trivial).

I will keep master docs at a Safe Deposit box at primary location, and have copies at other location + on-hand and copies with attorney and my trustee. (Be sure to get 'advanced directives' applicable to each location, rules are probably different - KEEP them at hand !!)

I will have vehicles at each destination, so I can fly when practical.

Try to have a plan so you don't need to worry about checking on the other place. Someone should be in the house every week, AND be sure to turn off the water and gas,,,(especially the water heater and washer !)

Unexpected problems...
Have a maint person that the 'caretaker' can call if needed... (hurricane, tornado, flood, volcano...break-in...)
Keep a dialog with caretaker so you know it is being done.
Have a checklist and reference list for caretaker + emergency contacts for you AND someone local or family.
Be nice to your caretaker (gift certificates and postcards, offer them to use your place for their guests or to use your 'other place' if they need a break)
Have a WRITTEN plan B in case something serious happens to you.
Keep folks apprised of your where-abouts.

Notify your normal accts of 'lapse of coverage / notification' (utilities, insurance, banking) They can have additional contact info in case a bill get missed, most are very amiable to that.

Be flexible, as you may decide to change one or both locations after a few years.

Good luck and have fun!

[MJRinCA]

Thank you JanB, this is exactly the sort of input I was hoping for. If you can think of anything else, I'd appreciate that too!

[LauraC]

What about taxes? Shoot me now if I had to do pro-rated state tax returns (meaning every line is a calculation) every year although I'm thinking if you can afford two houses, you probably have someone to take care of it for you. What about state tax withholding? Do you have to see about anything related to that?

Can you get called for jury duty in both places? What about your driver's license? You can only have one, right? Any problems with using it for identification if there is an address mismatch? Can you think of anything where you'd be charged differently as an out-of-state resident (driver's license used for proof of residence)? (example: fishing/hunting license)

How about voting? Do you have to name one as your legal residence so that you can't vote on issues impacting the other one? Does the driver's license and voter registration location have to be in sync?



I'd be interested if retirees who split their time between two places feel like they're a real part of either community. Which one is home? I would imagine if you have two houses when you are still in the workforce, you spend a lot more time in one location than the vacation home location. But how does that feel when you are retired and split your year between two locations?

I'd also be curious, how people who live someplace year-round feel about neighbors they only see for half a year. Are you as close to them as you are to others in the community? Do you think of them as summer people or winter people, for example, rather than members of the community?

[Tesaje]

Originally Posted by LauraC

What about taxes? Shoot me now if I had to do pro-rated state tax returns (meaning every line is a calculation) every year although I'm thinking if you can afford two houses, you probably have someone to take care of it for you. What about state tax withholding? Do you have to see about anything related to that?

Can you get called for jury duty in both places? What about your driver's license? You can only have one, right? Any problems with using it for identification if there is an address mismatch? Can you think of anything where you'd be charged differently as an out-of-state resident (driver's license used for proof of residence)? (example: fishing/hunting license)

How about voting? Do you have to name one as your legal residence so that you can't vote on issues impacting the other one? Does the driver's license and voter registration location have to be in sync?



I'd be interested if retirees who split their time between two places feel like they're a real part of either community. Which one is home? I would imagine if you have two houses when you are still in the workforce, you spend a lot more time in one location than the vacation home location. But how does that feel when you are retired and split your year between two locations?

I'd also be curious, how people who live someplace year-round feel about neighbors they only see for half a year. Are you as close to them as you are to others in the community? Do you think of them as summer people or winter people, for example, rather than members of the community?

All great questions. From what I've read, you must pick one place as your main domicile that that is where you vote, get a driver's license, etc. I assume jury-duty would follow. And unless there is some special local provision, you do give up the right to vote on local issues in the other place.

Taxes depend on the laws of each place. Some states will force you to pay pro-rated tax on as little as 2 months domicile. It seems like a lot of local govt. has really increased their grab on taxing people as they have seen their share of fed taxes decrease over the years. It can be a real issue in some places and bears careful research to understand what you really getting into. As far as witholding - if they won't withhold for dual residences, then usually you must file interim payments during the year for the other state.

Community - this a really personal thing. It is more important to some people than others. Some feel horrible and claustrophobic in close communities while others thrive on it.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by Tesaje

All great questions. ... you must pick one place as your main domicile that that is where you vote, get a driver's license, etc. I assume jury-duty would follow. And unless there is some special local provision, you do give up the right to vote on local issues in the other place.

Taxes depend on the laws of each place. Some states will force you to pay pro-rated tax on as little as 2 months domicile. ...

Most tax software can handle a multi state return. Some of us 'border dwellers' have lived with this issue for many years. It takes ~ 2-4 more hours / year to do it manually. Which I have had to do for my kids who were ski instructors in an income tax state, and occasionally had PT jobs or investment real estate in both tax and no-tax states (income).

Since one of the OP states of choice is NV, it will probably be their domicile (No state income tax, + very favorable trust / business / legal taxes and estate rules). You would vote there, and most of the left coast is 'vote-by-mail' so you don't have to even be there to do that. I have never had jury duty in my 28 yrs on left coast, but there are provisions for absentee residents, that they will schedule your duty during your brief stay. (South Dakota has very low requirements for domicile, and is a strong choice for 'full-timers').

Your absentee state gets property taxes from your holding there, which most folks cover by sub-leasing' their places for a few weeks (if you would rent your CA place and NV was your domicile, it would trigger a CA income tax reporting requirement...).

Income is based on where you earn it + where you live, so... if NV was your domicile AND you only earned income there or income from other income tax free states, it would be tax free by the state (working or investment income). If you worked while in CA (but a resident of NV) you would need to file a CA return to cover the income made from within CA or by assets based in CA. If CA was your domicile and you worked in NV, CA would probably want to tax your NV earnings, at least that is how it works between WA (income tax free) and OR (sales tax free). If you live in OR they tax your income (wherever you earn it), If you live in WA, they would like sales tax on your OR and MT purchases, but it is a bit harder to collect.

Originally Posted by Tesaje

Community - this a really personal thing. It is more important to some people than others. Some feel horrible and claustrophobic in close communities while others thrive on it.

The communities chosen have a very large number of folks living there PT (Sunbirds and snowbirds) so the community is used to that, and in fact often thrives on it. The 'returnee's get together to share stories of their times away, and have many community potlucks during their times together. Some of my friends can't wait to get back to their 'part-year' communities. They often have garage sale, golfing, hiking, horseback riding, dancing, cards, education, and breakfast or tea buddies. It is amazing to see the extent some people pack for this commute, especially those who haul horses back and forth a few thousand miles.

It is interesting to see this dynamic in work situations too. I would travel to Asia and dealt with seasonal transplants, like farmers from Canada who had a few thousand acres in Canada + a few thousand hectares in Australia for the southern hemisphere season and made the commute semi annually. (not that is FULLTIME farming ) I am looking into a position in Antarctica, as I have a friend who really likes working there seasonally.

Its tough to have so many options, we (USA, middleclass) definately have lots-o' opportunities, and are very fortunate. Tho that is changing for most of us. (as in I'm gonna have to work a bit in my next 50yrs of retirement) medical benefits

[MJRinCA]

NV will be our primary residence, and it's free of state income taxes. We've worked carefully with our CPA and Financial Planner to make sure we meet all the requirements for that. We will get NV drivers license and our vehicles will likely all be registered in NV. We're a bit torn right now on where we register the vehicle we leave at the CA house. That may depend on insurance rates and registration fees. We don't expect to work in retirement, so our only income will be investment income. So we don't expect to have to file any CA state income taxes. We will pay property taxes in both states.

We'll register to vote in NV, but as JanB said, most of us west coasters are already doing absentee ballots. We'll do that in NV as well, so when our mail is forwarded to us we can vote absentee. Of course we do give up the ability to vote in local elections in CA. And if I never have jury duty again that'll be fine with me, (spent 16 weeks on a murder trial once, that's enough!)

With respect to the community, at least the one in Indio, CA is very much a retirement / transient community. At least 50% of the houses on our street are owned by Canadian citizens who are in and out for most of the winter. Of maybe 20 houses on our street, there are only 2 or 3 full time residents. Other streets seem to be much the same way. Over the summer, when temps can hit 115 to 120, it's pretty sparsely populated!

I'm not sure about the community aspect at the house in NV. It's not a retirement community in any sense, just a housing development. It's new, so not very full yet, but I suspect most of the residents will be full time.

[LauraC]

Originally Posted by janb

The communities chosen have a very large number of folks living there PT (Sunbirds and snowbirds) so the community is used to that, and in fact often thrives on it.

I'm sorry janb, I didn't mean you, personally. I meant generally, speaking. Not everyone has two homes of which one is in a master planned community/retirement community/resort type situation where everyone leaves and comes back around the same time. When I said "community" I was thinking "towns or neighborhoods." A person has one house, for example, where they've lived/worked most of their life and another in a town somewhere, let's say, where the weather is different. Do people who split their time in two locations feel like they are really a part of either town and how do the people who live in those places, full-time, feel about them?

I know that when you are in the workforce, one would be considered a vacation home, but you would spend very little time at the vacation home, comparatively speaking, maybe a couple of months a year, tops. You are on vacation, doing vacation-like things and the local people treat you like vacationers, not townspeople, even if you own the house.

But when you're retired, the concept of "vacation" doesn't exist. Vacation from what? You don't have to "get back" to return to work with other people just like you (meaning not on vacation) after a set period of time is up. You could easily spend a half of a year in each place. In neither place are you on vacation. You probably go to the supermarket at least weekly, go to doctors, go to the library, have your car fixed/tuned up, attend religious services, etc., in both places just as you would if you lived in either of your two houses for a full year. If you are geographically close to the second house, you might even be going back and forth between houses every week or so. (Unlike when you are on vacation and only go to the second house on the weekends).

I'm just wondering how people who live in both towns year 'round feel about you as part-time non-vacationing residents and how you feel, you fit in with them as a part-time resident in each of your two towns.