Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-20-2009, 09:01 AM
 
Location: USA
1,952 posts, read 4,776,734 times
Reputation: 2266

Advertisements

I've been interested in intentional communities for a number of years. I like the idea, if one's privacy and autonomy could be part of the package.
In reading threads about retirement villages, it occurred to me, that perhaps these places are simply intentional communities, by another name.
What are your thoughts?
Are there any "retirement villages" without the steep price tag?
I am 53 and my husband will be 50 this year, however, I still have children at home. So I presume we couldn't live at one of those retirement villages, even if we wanted to, right now....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-20-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,621 posts, read 57,620,656 times
Reputation: 46064
Where do you want to live ?...

You have probably noted some of the options I have mentioned, being most keen myself on the limited equity Cooperative Ownership model (because I have a passion for providing lower cost options for fixed income seniors & hope to eventually build out or convert some cottage style or MHP villages). These places vary in size and type, and the limited equity (1-3% equity limits retain affordability to follow-on members, and help assure a quick sell when you depart (Average time is 3 weeks)) Cost varies, but is typically $30k down and $800/month, 76% of which is deductible as interest / taxes)
Senior Cooperative Foundation
I plan to attend their annual meeting in May (MSP). I am dealing with some folks who have been building these for 20+ yrs and finding out some of the hic-cups AND cliffs they have encountered.

Age grouping is statistically older than yourselves, but younger than typical independent living (of course, becuz that is $3000+/ month, and often $15-$25k non-refundable deposit). HOWEVER the age thing really depends on your perceptions, as there are people eagerly anticipating one spouse attaining age 55 so they will qualify for the HUD 213 funding of Senior Co-ops. The target market is folks with some Home equity, that want to get rid of the hassle of SF (single family home) ownership, and want to travel / volunteer / pursue other activities besides mowing grass and painting their house.

These could be considered 'intentional communities', but the folks colleagues and I have interviewed are fiercely independent and very pleased with the set-up. The communities do minimal 'events' together, and most folks have outside interests and spend a lot of time outside of their 'living' community. They are not at all like the co-housing folks I've interviewed and meetings I've attended (where their community is often their refuge).

Which brings me to
Welcome! | The Cohousing Association of the United States
Annual conference in Seattle in June (I'll go there too)
These vary considerably and are very significant in Scandinavia (Interesting side line.... I've been told (quietly) that USA folks of Scandinavian descent are far more amiable to work with and desirous of cohousing and coops than some other nationality's.)

Many cohousing properties are condo ownership (Very interesting, because CO-OP fits their unified purpose better, but Co-ops can be a challenge to finance). But I also find that the exorbitant Cohousing pricing is charged by enterprising developers who make a bundle on the social engineering aspect. (not unlike the 'vultures' who come out of the woodwork when the GOV gets involved in subsidizing alternative energy... THAT is what killed solar / energy independence in the Carter years, and is going to do so again, as they are circling Obama energy tax credits. It is fascinating to watch these characters who make a career of following the EZ money, they pop up in the strangest places as 'experts').

There are lots of cohousing options, and even more 1/2 baked cohousing starts sitting vacant.

You might consider Senior Resource for Aging in Place if you can find an amiable community (which I think will be the best option). Set-up a priority list of what you want in a community and home, and then find some matches. Personally I have a big barrier, as I would like a small, working farm (that I don't have to care for 100%), close to a town with Jr College, near international airport hub, and in a tax base, climate, and culture I can tolerate.

Unfortunately, I am very concerned about a culture shift, as the younger, more vocal, and 'get-out-the-vote' culture definately has an agenda for seniors. I attended a 'rural-Oregon' event yesterday, and it is down right scary how they react to issues of concern to farmers / rural cities / towns, and seniors. Couple that with the rumored subversive efforts of FEMA getting interment camps out of mothballs and restricting arms and ammunition with anticipation of social unrest in USA, and we might not be making our choices of living arrangements for long. (hopefully none of this comes to pass)

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 03-20-2009 at 10:46 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 13,235,647 times
Reputation: 2192
Quote:
Originally Posted by janb View Post
$30k down and $800/month, 76% of which is deductible as interest / taxes)
Just remember that translates to only $170 more in your pocket from the tax deduction IF your marginal tax rate is 28%. It always seems so much better before you do the math.

Really nice post on various options.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2009, 11:21 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,621 posts, read 57,620,656 times
Reputation: 46064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
Just remember that translates to only $170 more in your pocket from the tax deduction IF your marginal tax rate is 28%. It always seems so much better before you do the math.

Really nice post on various options.
Very true... and I don't consider home ownership an 'lnvestment', (As most bankers and realtors profess) certainly not the 'interest deduction'.

My goal is to STAY in the 10% tax zone (while it exists...). I'm doing ROTH conversions in 2009 & 2010 BEFORE the 'sunset', & will be pursuing the $250k tax free income from rolling personal residences every 2 yrs (very strategically, of course.... I don't need another financial BATH at the moment) I have been lucky to find trashed acreages that are in the UGA and subject to commercial rezone or in the way of progress (streets and roads / hospitals / colleges). You can live in a teepee with a mailbox (or at least an addy) for 2 yrs, as they will bulldoze the home anyway. I think most of my time will be spent traveling internationally and finding a new spot for the teepee, so I won't be home much anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2009, 05:50 AM
 
4,096 posts, read 11,434,245 times
Reputation: 9124
Senior communities are not intentional communities. They are some form of commercial real estate development to provide housing to seniors but there is usually no component you would normally consider in the intentional movement.

There is normally no sharing of income or much in the way of shared personal facilities except in some few groups. There is a huge number and variation in styles of senior communities.

There are rentals both full market rate and income supported (30% of income), ownership models of all kinds both traditional and cooperative ownership models, full subdivisions with amenities for full price, and then the nursing situations.

What you can choose from is based on your available equity and income as well as where you want to live. Nothing is free and nothing much is cheap.

In Indy, the market rate for a new (and very nice)senior tradtional rental building is around $700 per month. In an older but huge group of apartments with bus service it is about the same. There are subdivisions with patio homes for over 55 that range from less than $100,000 to a lot more and a large variety of communities with nursing homes somehow associated that are $3000 and up per month for non Medicaid residents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
84 posts, read 208,556 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by janb View Post
Where do you want to live ?...

You have probably noted some of the options I have mentioned, being most keen myself on the limited equity Cooperative Ownership model (because I have a passion for providing lower cost options for fixed income seniors & hope to eventually build out or convert some cottage style or MHP villages).
Dear Jan,

So glad I caught your post in this thread. I've also been exploring future living arrangements for the past few years, but haven't found much about Cooperative Ownership. I followed the link you provided, but haven't made time to study it yet.

My research has primarily focused on cohousing until recently. I find current and forming cohousing projects are too expensive for me on a limited income without much equity.

As an alternative, I've been studying the Small House Movement to see if it could be used as a more affordable coho. Small homes appear to be well suited for coho or coop living in that much of the space normally assigned for use in an individual home is placed elsewhere for use by all members of the project .. like laundry, crafts or woodshop space, guest facilities, and an area where more than a handfull of people can meet.

The main advantage of a smaller home is they are more energy efficient, take less time to maintain, and cost much less than 'affordable' homes in the current market. They are well designed, comfortable and appeal to many people who prescribe to the simple living concept. With these homes, one easily could pay cash for construction (individual ownership).

I've been meaning to ask several of the prominent coho developers about working on a project that uses small homes. I'm wondering if there is a large enough profit margin to make them attractive to coho developers.

My other question to you involves seeing homes as an investment, especially during the current economic climate. In reading over some of the coop information, I see there's still an assumption made that homes will appreciate over time. Now that we've learned a bit more about how this works (or doesn't work), I'm wondering how it has affected expenses and values within the wide range of housing available for older people -- whether it has rendered some of these choices moot.

I've been following cohousing on the national group's mailing list for many years to learn about the concept. To hear cohousing participants talk about it, none have failed to be filled and it doesn't take as long to resell a unit as it does a 'regular' home. I guess there are a few projects being built that are totally financed by developers working with potential residents. Don't know how those are fairing at this time.

A lot of people have discovered what I did: regardless of whether you retain a developer, the cost per unit for energy-efficient homes is prohibitive to many people who used to be part of the middle class. Many people drop out of the formation process long before construction begins due to these expenses.

That's why I'm leaning toward trying to get a group together for small houses within a coho or coop project. The best place to learn more about small homes is The Small House Society.

Tried to get forming cohos to accept construction of small or more affordable homes within their projects. They were difficult to tack down on their resistance to the idea. Someone finally said they didn't want a Katrina Cottage located near their home because it would decrease the value of their investment!

It's been proven not to be true in other sub-divisions. Common misconceptions about small homes still make people shy away from them. Mainly, I'm wondering if the current economic failure will affect how people look at the value of their home. People haven't always considered them as a growing investment. I think continuation of interactions between long-time neighbors has disappeared in direct relation to the rise of seeing a home as an investment, but that's a long conversation for another time.

Interesting that you should hear about the fears people have about living in the United States while attending a rural-Oregon event. I know from experience that many, many people don't like what's going on in our country, but haven't actually seen or heard proof until just lately. :-(

Cheers!
Marganne


P.S. Thank you for the valuable info and links. Still having a problem wrapping my brain around all this stuff. I'm jealous that you live so close to the Coho convention in Seattle... I'd love to go!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
84 posts, read 208,556 times
Reputation: 52
Default What's a UGA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janb View Post
Very true... and I don't consider home ownership an 'lnvestment', (As most bankers and realtors profess) certainly not the 'interest deduction'.

My goal is to STAY in the 10% tax zone (while it exists...). I'm doing ROTH conversions in 2009 & 2010 BEFORE the 'sunset', & will be pursuing the $250k tax free income from rolling personal residences every 2 yrs (very strategically, of course.... I don't need another financial BATH at the moment) I have been lucky to find trashed acreages that are in the UGA and subject to commercial rezone or in the way of progress (streets and roads / hospitals / colleges). You can live in a teepee with a mailbox (or at least an addy) for 2 yrs, as they will bulldoze the home anyway. I think most of my time will be spent traveling internationally and finding a new spot for the teepee, so I won't be home much anyway.
Jan,

What is the UGA? My friends in the small home movement are having A LOT of trouble identifying places where they can 'park' some of the smallest small homes (built on a trailer with wheels so they can be moved). Occurs to me that having a place where they can park their small home on wheels for 2 years would be perfect!

Cheers!
Marganne
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2009, 01:14 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,621 posts, read 57,620,656 times
Reputation: 46064
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmhere View Post
Jan,

What is the UGA?... having A LOT of trouble identifying places where they can 'park' some of the smallest small homes (built on a trailer with wheels so they can be moved).
UGA = Urban Growth Area (a perimeter around a city that needs to be filled with development density before city is allowed to grow)

Thanks for the link to small homes, I've been following these 'portable' home for a couple years (Reminding me to the gypsies and Sheepherder wagons of my youth). I was think about hitching one behind my tractor and taking off across America with a sign "will work for waste cooking grease (Fuel)". But reality struck and it is much cheaper to drive my VW Rabbit (quite a lot quicker , and warmer and drier too + I would miss NPR, especially Science Friday!)

I like the idea of wheels on your house (no 'real property' tax, but probably 'personal / license tax'). A gal I worked with built one 3 yrs ago and keeps in on a river lot near Mt St Helens (Where you are not allowed to build). She made it from a 'job shack' (portable office). Very nicely done, but significantly larger than a car trailer.

You have spurred some thoughts for me regarding your 'place to park' question. I would assume that zoning for campground would be required. Waste water will be a biggy. BUT!!!! I think... there might be potential to get 'hardship' exemption to place them as a mobile home, or in RV spot at a personal residence (In an area without HOA rule against). It is an interesting thought, and one I will pursue in my quest to buy a mobile home park (MHP) / campground.

There was a cohousing group in Port Townsend, WA that was looking into ECO-cottage / aging in place, but I don't think it was this one
Port Townsend EcoVillage or this one Rosewind

It seems it was built in pods and to the south of Port Townsend in a rural area.

I like the cottage idea (preferably passive solar, small footprint, ez maint, lots of greenspace for sheep to mow) + a big shop for the guys and a community center with nice loft or 'closed door' but lots of light - 'out-of-the-way' room for studio, (Quilting / art) with side areas for clay. Just so you can shut the door and leave projects in various states of completion. Also a barn for the sheep / chickens, with a large lean-to shed for sitting in the shade and enjoying the view of the garden and pond.

I think you could build these for $60 / SF (yourself as general contractor, but subbing everything out, buying materials from Habitat or de-construction stores), so just find some appropriately zoned land. It would be much cheaper to build 4 plexes, so add some of those for 'fixed equity' housing to enable future (poor-like-us) seniors to move in.

Good luck, there are lots of regional housing coalitions that can help you through this. And probably some grant / loan money.

I am just leary that we have 'overbuilt' as a society, and the thought of building again wears me out, so... I'm looking for existing housing options to convert to more reasonable use.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top