Retiring on a literal shoestring: support group (single mom, weather, community)

[Wisteria]

WisteriaWith families spread out, lack of generosity -- I have a family member who is well worth over a million dollars, and although it's not her money but her husband's, she still gives out used items as Christmas presents -- how cheap is that? Although for herself, she buys, buys, buys. A typical capitalist who does not care for others, but just uses words as lies to try to convince people she cares....unfortunately, those who know her, know the truth.

truth&honesty : I found the use of the term "typical capitalist" in Wisteria's mention of a certain family member to be amusing. If it was meant to mean someone who dedicates their efforts through hard work, strategic planning, opportunistic advancement, strong relationship building, and genuine humility, all in an effort to improve their families life experiences and quality of life, I agree. Or if the term was meant to describe someone who has sacrificed beyond imagination in an attempt to build a richer life and includes those whom they love and trust to enjoy it with them, I agree.

I have had experiences with family members of my own who most would call "users". Always looking for someone else to bail them out. Provide for them. Without reciprocation or barely even acknowledgement, as if it's "owed" to them just because a sibling 'made it' and they didn't.

It's really quite tragic. Because, at least in my case, you love them so much you do it regardless of knowing they're using you. And I'm not talking about the sibling who has fallen on hard times, who has been there for you emotionally in times of crisis, who you could count on for love and support like only a sibling can provide. For them, you share proudly and humbly. It's the ones that feel entitled, mainly out of laziness and jealousy, that cause the moral dogma.

"Used Christmas gifts". If they're useful and/or from the heart, what does that matter.

I gave my out of work brother an old guitar of mine for Christmas this year, despite the fact that I could have easily afforded to buy him a brand new one, and he absolutely loved it. I assume because he loves me, and knows how much I love him. He even wrote a song about it.

I don't know your relationship with your sibling, or the whole story. If he/she/they are truly selfish, ungiving people, shame on them. But most "Typical Capitalists" give and give and give. And they can because of the "Capitalist" drive that allowed them to earn it in the first place.

My goodness, this was an old post of mine, and I'm surprised it is singled out. I wonder why? There are so many posts on C-D that cover topics like that, especially in the Politics and Controversies threads, that I find it odd to have a response on a thread about aging and retirement....

I will respond, but only once, as I do not think it is relevant to the topic. I know of several families who have very wealthy members. But they are not close. Not because of money, but because of ... in these cases ... how they treat their family members, without any provocation.

There are other families where those who are "capitalists," and I do apologize for that term, as I should not have clumped it under that heading, but probably rather something about how many times one cannot depend on family, so your friends become your family.

My daughter is going into business -- with all her classes in finance and economics, it is evident that she is interested in making money. Her boyfriend is an engineer, so that he can have money. So, in that case the term is irrelevant.

I do know wealthy people who are generous, honest and ethical. I was merely pointing out my own personal experience, and I guess the word "capitalist" was incorrect -- I supposed a "disturbed" family member would be better. Someone who is a pathological liar, someone whom no one actually trusts, but know that the individual is lying and making much up, and one whom they know doesn't really care about them (all the family members) as a loving person, although they frequently "talk the talk, but don't walk the walk." That's all.

Unfortunately, people often pretend things are okay, even when they're not just to keep the peace. For me, this individual has been particularly cruel, although I guess some of it is due to the mental imbalance, and the "used" gifts were given to many other people, too -- I was certainly not the only one. I remember one year when it was quite the joke about all the used gifts to pretend they cared, when it was obvious they didn't. One year...this is true...myself and one of my nieces got a cheap package of incense (neither of us that I know use it), that had been pre-opened and one piece of each package taken out -- it looked like maybe they had tried it, didn't like it, wrapped it up and sent it. Now, this is from someone with millions. Frankly, I would rather have had nothing -- which eventually is one reason why I took myself out of the gift exchange -- it became pointless.

That is why I keep my holidays to a quiet day with friends and my daughter and her boyfriend, without the drama, no drunken parties or fights, no one falling down stairs, etc., that seem to happen a lot of places. Of course, I am far apart in age with my siblings, so we are actually a generation apart, and I suppose that makes it different, too. I come from the Sixties generation, and my values and outlook are different.

My point is that one cannot and should not depend on family to care for oneself in old age, especially in this society.

And I was coming from my own point of view of someone who is not a pathological liar, and anyone who interacts with me knows that I am very direct and honest -- which isn't always appreciated, I admit, however, it is just my nature. And, if I did have that kind of money, for me...and I only speak for me...I would indulge for many people. I do have friends who are very poor, and make it a point of sending them money cards or checks, or things that I know they can use -- because I know that they have had a hard life, and opportunities were taken away from them -- so, although I am not in the "wealthy" category, I do think of them often and try in my small ways to give a gift out of the blue -- I prefer to give the gifts when it is not a holiday, so it does not appear obligatory. I would rather give when it's just a chance to show I'm doing it for them, not a holiday.

Don't get me wrong, I have had many life experiences, lived all over, traveled the world, and know some very interesting people. My only gripe is with people who purposely are selfish, and will purposely lie (even when every person knows, but I guess that is a sign of mental illness not capitalism, so my term was used incorrectly).

I have noticed in many posts that this group has had, that often we recognize that we are independent and on our own. I would guess that some of us know people who have oodles of money, but are just not ethical, caring people. Or worse, are pathological in their nature...which just colors it differently. And the reverse is also true -- I know those with money whom you would never know to look at! They are just not into "keeping up with the Jones's" and are decent, kind people -- money is just a nice extra for them.

I'm wondering why my one post was chosen to be criticized for that one word? I guess I used the term incorrectly. My only point is that there are many people with money (and I used the term incorrectly, I guess) who are not kind people, nor generous people, however, some obviously have mental problems, such as being sociopaths, borderline personalities, pathologial liars, etc. Look at Bernie Madoff - he squandered a friend of mine's money....my friend lost...Bernie was rolling in dough and didn't care (a typical sociopath). He only cared about himself. That was the point I was trying to make because I'm not much interested in politics or things of that nature.

I guess it comes down to it's each man for themselves. Unfortunately, the individual to whom I was referring, did this to other people, too. That upsets me, but it is what it is. For me, I stay away only because I find it hard to stomach the lies and inconsistencies and hatred that emanate. I am sure most people know someone like that. So, I guess you're right -- it's not about "capitalism," (see, I said I wasn't political), but more about personality disorders that can affect others.

As for people leeching off others, well, I am happy to have worked my entire life, except for one short period after my divorce when I lived with my dad and finished college, so that I could go back into the work world. Having worked over 40 years of my life at full-time jobs, I think that's pretty good --- every once in awhile people can fall on hard times, and I have been grateful for a very loving father. But I also realize that siblings, in particular, as I know many people with similar stories, can be extremely different from each other. It's not an uncommon story.

So, I apologize for the use of "capitalism," that kind just rolled off my tongue in an incorrect manner. As I am not political, I guess I should not have used that phrase. The problem was more of a mental disorder (and I felt more comfortable just using that word because money was also involved), and some people with money are kind and generous. Some do work hard at it. I know those who do, but I sometimes forget they are wealthy because their integrity, honesty, good will and kindness make me forget about it. It wouldn't matter if it were a sibling or someone else -- makes no difference -- it's how people treat each other. Unfortunately, sometimes people do have disorders or just bad personalities that can hurtfully affect others. Sometimes they pick and choose their victims -- and often with no explanation or rhyme or reason.

I have a friend who has a brother who does the exact same thing -- although I don't think he's a pathological liar, just a mean guy. Some people are like that.

That's why I say we need to look after ourselves first and not worry about our families taking care of us. If we are so blessed that it happens, which I actually think is less rare, then we are indeed blessed.

So, again, perhaps I should not have used that term, but rather focused on the personality defects instead -- that is probably more the truth. It just happens that they have money, too, and that money was not earned by them, although they consider it their money, so it always seems odd to me when they talk about their "money" as if they somehow had something to do with it -- it was merely marrying for money -- which, I know, I know, a lot of women do, but I, personally, could not do that. And if the guy had money and cheated on me, or did other things that were not ethical, I wouldn't stay regardless of the money. So, I guess it's just my own sense of ethics that comes into play here.

Again, I apologize for using that term, as I do know wealthy people who own their own companies, and this was not directed at them, in particular, but more at those who use others through marriage, or conniving, and lying and things of that sort. I realize it happens more often than I'd like to know, and I just happen to have morals where I couldn't do it even if I wanted to (and I have had the chance). And, I do have to keep in mind that this individual has been a pathological since childhood, as family members have had to frequently check with each other to see which is truth and which is fiction--I just didn't want to go there in detail, as it is a very sad situation, and sad that so many people are aware of it, but dance around it. Sort of like a Tiger Woods thing -- you see one personality, yet the true personality is very, very different -- they're just good at manipulating it -- but then the truth comes out...and I just got tired of it all and couldn't play the "pretend you don't know game" anymore. But that's my life, not yours!!

I am surprised this one sentence was plucked from the millions of words I have written. Obviously, it hit a nerve -- and maybe there is a reason for that....just saying....

So, no more politically incorrect words. Geez, I am surprised. Every family is different, but to be honest, I know many more families who are dysfunctional than not. So, again, please forgive my misuse of the word. I have responded, and that's the end of this topic for me. Thanks for enduring this long post!

[RiverBird]

This is off topic, but a few words re: Wisteria's use of the term "typical capitalist," just so we don't spend too much time looking for political correctness/

I remember her post, and I took "typical capitalist" not in a monetary way but more in a lifestyle or personality way: someone out just for themselves, not the well-being of a group or family. Capitalist doesn't always have to be in terms of money. There are many money-capitalists who ahve a high commitment to community and society.

Back on topic....what are some shoestring vacations some on this thread may be taking this summer?

[MotleyCrew]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

This is off topic, but a few words re: Wisteria's use of the term "typical capitalist," just so we don't spend too much time looking for political correctness/

I remember her post, and I took "typical capitalist" not in a monetary way but more in a lifestyle or personality way: someone out just for themselves, not the well-being of a group or family. Capitalist doesn't always have to be in terms of money. There are many money-capitalists who ahve a high commitment to community and society.

Back on topic....what are some shoestring vacations some on this thread may be taking this summer?

Well, not so much on a shoestring. We have to attend the AIA convention in Miami (breaking my heart) and that is always a spendy trec. The good thing is that our daughter is joining us and we always split meals, so that will save a little.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

Back on topic....what are some shoestring vacations some on this thread may be taking this summer?

SUMMER who can wait for summer (Spring fever bit about 3 months ago_)
Spring - trips to UT parks, Death Valley, Joshua
SE USA for Dogwoods
NW USA for Rhodies
Late spring NorCa (pretty fields / flowers BEFORE parched May)

as usual...
$10 - $20/night guest homes (Evergreen Club)

+ 52 Mpg 'beater' (diesel Passat, will run on cooking oil if necessary)

Eat 2x / day, Brkfst usually 'free' at guest home. Late afternoon at a Farm / produce stand. Or ONE item off Wendy's $.99 menu (make mine healthy, pls)

Libraries and Chamber of Commerce are good places to go when not using the 'Federal Park Pass' National Parks Passes - How to get National Park Passes (oh, to live long enough to get a 'golden eagle', less than 10 yrs now!!)

Showers and camping free in most city parks / fairgrounds in rural America (it beats Walmart camping) Free Campgrounds for RVs

If travel requires flying, I am still finding good deals ($213 Portland, OR to Boston). I got a $14/day Priceline car last month in TX (cheaper than owning one!!)

Probably look to 'follow the harvest' and work for farmers or grain elevators for spare change (food / fuel). It usually pays BIG dividends (NO TOURISTS, great food, people, and good exercise) For summers I tend to avoid crowds, having grown up in Estes Park, CO, and took weekly summer delivery trips to Yellowstone.

[popcorn247]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

SUMMER who can wait for summer (Spring fever bit about 3 months ago_)
Spring - trips to UT parks, Death Valley, Joshua
SE USA for Dogwoods
NW USA for Rhodies
Late spring NorCa (pretty fields / flowers BEFORE parched May)

as usual...
$10 - $20/night guest homes (Evergreen Club)

+ 52 Mpg 'beater' (diesel Passat, will run on cooking oil if necessary)

Eat 2x / day, Brkfst usually 'free' at guest home. Late afternoon at a Farm / produce stand. Or ONE item off Wendy's $.99 menu (make mine healthy, pls)

Libraries and Chamber of Commerce are good places to go when not using the 'Federal Park Pass' National Parks Passes - How to get National Park Passes (oh, to live long enough to get a 'golden eagle', less than 10 yrs now!!)

Showers and camping free in most city parks / fairgrounds in rural America (it beats Walmart camping) Free Campgrounds for RVs

If travel requires flying, I am still finding good deals ($213 Portland, OR to Boston). I got a $14/day Priceline car last month in TX (cheaper than owning one!!)

Probably look to 'follow the harvest' and work for farmers or grain elevators for spare change (food / fuel). It usually pays BIG dividends (NO TOURISTS, great food, people, and good exercise) For summers I tend to avoid crowds, having grown up in Estes Park, CO, and took weekly summer delivery trips to Yellowstone.

Thanks, you have some wonderful ways of saving money while traveling

[Wisteria]

NewEnglandGirl: I remember her post, and I took "typical capitalist" not in a monetary way but more in a lifestyle or personality way: someone out just for themselves, not the well-being of a group or family. Capitalist doesn't always have to be in terms of money. There are many money-capitalists who have a high commitment to community and society.

Thanks -- you were absolutely right! I was trying to actually avoid the other stuff (pathological personality disorders), and got bit for it.

And YES! StealthRabbit comes through again with phenomenal ideas! My goodness -- do you have a photographic memory, or a computerized brain that gives you all of that? You are truly amazing with your wealth of information! I do hope you are considering a book on cheap retirements -- on that shoestring! Good info -- thanks!

[RiverBird]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

as usual...
$10 - $20/night guest homes (Evergreen Club)

What is your experience with the Evergreen Club?

Are there any overnight "hostels" for elders?

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

What is your experience with the Evergreen Club?
Terrific, as well as the 3 other directories I've used

Are there any overnight "hostels" for elders?
Not to my Knowledge, my kids (when small) referred to them as 'Foster Homes for College kids'

I'll admit, the co-ed showers at many hostels are a bit 'youthful' for retirees They are really only cheap if traveling alone, I often prefer using a barn at a farm. (tho some hostels are quite nice)

[Wisteria]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl
What is your experience with the Evergreen Club?
Terrific, as well as the 3 other directories I've used

Are there any overnight "hostels" for elders?
Not to my Knowledge, my kids (when small) referred to them as 'Foster Homes for College kids'

Actually, Newenglandgirl, a friend and I stayed in a youth hostel in Boulder, Colorado, a couple of years ago. Surprisingly, amid all the young travelers, were quite a few people our age!! But then I realized, "Oh, yeah, the old hippie, free-style generation!" Ha ha!

It was quite large and nice, and had two beds in the room we stayed in. Communal showers (but not co-ed!), which who cares anymore at this age?? It had a large sitting area, and was right in the center of town next to the Flatirons (mountains). Cheap, too.

It was my friend who made the reservations for that one, and I think there's something online (I don't have time to check around right now but just google youth hostels), and there may be a booklet of "youth" hostels you can purchase, also. At any rate, there is no age limit, and we were quite happy there. In fact, it made us feel young again -- and, as typical in a hostel, lots of people from around the world.

[RiverBird]

Originally Posted by Wisteria

Actually, Newenglandgirl, a friend and I stayed in a youth hostel in Boulder, Colorado, a couple of years ago. Surprisingly, amid all the young travelers, were quite a few people our age!! But then I realized, "Oh, yeah, the old hippie, free-style generation!" Ha ha!

It was quite large and nice, and had two beds in the room we stayed in. Communal showers (but not co-ed!), which who cares anymore at this age?? It had a large sitting area, and was right in the center of town next to the Flatirons (mountains). Cheap, too.

It was my friend who made the reservations for that one, and I think there's something online (I don't have time to check around right now but just google youth hostels), and there may be a booklet of "youth" hostels you can purchase, also. At any rate, there is no age limit, and we were quite happy there. In fact, it made us feel young again -- and, as typical in a hostel, lots of people from around the world.

I think "Elderhostel" is an educational program that includes travel with lodging. I was thinking about a stop-in overnight hostel for older folks, but I don;t find anything on the Net....