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Old 09-27-2009, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Maryland
454 posts, read 933,989 times
Reputation: 898

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew View Post
You make some broad assumptions that if one has a question or concern regarding overhauling our healthcare we must all listen to Limbaugh. I have not heard his show for over 7 years. So then should I make an assumption that you dear poster sit behind a computer collecting whatever welfare check you collect to keep it running to prod people and chide people into accepting whatever the congress shoves at us? I think not.
Wow, I was commenting on the FACT that the healthcare bill is online, contrary to your assertion. Not only are you devoid of the facts but your are also insulting, something I find common with right wing nuts. By the way, I probably live in a nice home than you do and live very comfortably, however there is one difference between us, I am open to FACTS while you obviously make blind statement that have nothing to do with the actual truth.

You know what they say about people that make assumptions. I think it's quite true in your case. Don't judge people by your right wing standards.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,584,408 times
Reputation: 5692
Quote:
Originally Posted by seethelight View Post
Wow, I was commenting on the FACT that the healthcare bill is online, contrary to your assertion. Not only are you devoid of the facts but your are also insulting, something I find common with right wing nuts. By the way, I probably live in a nice home than you do and live very comfortably, however there is one difference between us, I am open to FACTS while you obviously make blind statement that have nothing to do with the actual truth.

You know what they say about people that make assumptions. I think it's quite true in your case. Don't judge people by your right wing standards.
You have little trouble judging people by your left wing standards. This bill will effect both.. My concerns are that this bill, which now has a tag inserted that we will go to jail if we do not have insurance, is not being presented in its full measure to the public so we can decide. This is cruel, and punishes the poor and middle class. How compasionate is this? I find it hard to believe that you have read over 1,000 pages of this bill.

Again, you know nothing of my home and I know nothing of yours, which is devoid of any facts is it not? What does this have to do with the health care bill? There are obviously enough liberals and conservatives to question this bill according to the polls.
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:29 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,876,173 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew View Post
You have little trouble judging people by your left wing standards. This bill will effect both.. My concerns are that this bill, which now has a tag inserted that we will go to jail if we do not have insurance, is not being presented in its full measure to the public so we can decide. This is cruel, and punishes the poor and middle class. How compasionate is this? I find it hard to believe that you have read over 1,000 pages of this bill.

Again, you know nothing of my home and I know nothing of yours, which is devoid of any facts is it not? What does this have to do with the health care bill? There are obviously enough liberals and conservatives to question this bill according to the polls.
There are multiple bills. Which specific bill are you referring to and who is pushing it in congress"
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Prospect, KY
5,288 posts, read 17,963,075 times
Reputation: 6544
Interesting Links:

The Humble Libertarian: Problems With Universal Health Care Plan

Universal Healthcare's Dirty Little Secrets | Michael D. Tanner and Michael F. Cannon | Cato Institute: Daily Commentary

The Problems with Universal Healthcare - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:24 PM
Status: "0-0-2 Game On!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,304 posts, read 15,356,670 times
Reputation: 9483
By all means, then let's just keep it the way it is. I like spending 34% of my pre-tax income on health insurance premiums (not to mention deductibles) AND having to fight the insurance company to cover bills. It's so relaxing and enjoyable.

Cato Institute's insistence that "the consumer should direct their health care dollar" is laughable under the current system. Unless you have an unlimited amount of insurance companies to chose from and access to all levels of plans, the insurance company will decide what care you get and from whom. And they decide based on their profit. Depending on which insurance company you go through, they spend between 70-80% of premiums on health care - compare that with an investment advisor. Imagine if you told an money manager that you wanted to put $20,000 in the stock market and the broker told you that they'd take 20-30% of that off the top for "management fees." That's exactly what an insurance company does.

This system has got to change. Personally, I would prefer that the health care company lobbyists be banned from having quite so much input, but we need a system that covers more people and cuts costs. Will any of the bills out there do it? Not as much as I'd like, but we've got a ways to go yet for a final bill.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:27 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,876,173 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal View Post
By all means, then let's just keep it the way it is. I like spending 34% of my pre-tax income on health insurance premiums (not to mention deductibles) AND having to fight the insurance company to cover bills. It's so relaxing and enjoyable.

Cato Institute's insistence that "the consumer should direct their health care dollar" is laughable under the current system. Unless you have an unlimited amount of insurance companies to chose from and access to all levels of plans, the insurance company will decide what care you get and from whom. And they decide based on their profit. Depending on which insurance company you go through, they spend between 70-80% of premiums on health care - compare that with an investment advisor. Imagine if you told an money manager that you wanted to put $20,000 in the stock market and the broker told you that they'd take 20-30% of that off the top for "management fees." That's exactly what an insurance company does.

This system has got to change. Personally, I would prefer that the health care company lobbyists be banned from having quite so much input, but we need a system that covers more people and cuts costs. Will any of the bills out there do it? Not as much as I'd like, but we've got a ways to go yet for a final bill.
Just wait until the naysayers start having their premiums go up at work or their employers start dropping coverage.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:03 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,053,898 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Just wait until the naysayers start having their premiums go up at work or their employers start dropping coverage.
It is the "I've got mine so s***w you" mentality. Makes for such a good society when large parts of the population have such civic sensibilities...
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:52 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,876,173 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
It is the "I've got mine so s***w you" mentality. Makes for such a good society when large parts of the population have such civic sensibilities...
There are serious issues and problems with universal coverage prior to reform. However they are not often part of the discussion.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:22 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,053,898 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
There are serious issues and problems with universal coverage prior to reform. However they are not often part of the discussion.
Very true. But with all the loud shouts and lies, it is hard to have a serious discussion about what would work and what will need to be done to address all the failings in our current system. I'm afraid that the way it is going, some half step will not address any of the huge issues and will not work very well. Our system is so broken, it really needs a coherent overhaul to change the way we do medicine in this country.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:36 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,876,173 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
Very true. But with all the loud shouts and lies, it is hard to have a serious discussion about what would work and what will need to be done to address all the failings in our current system. I'm afraid that the way it is going, some half step will not address any of the huge issues and will not work very well. Our system is so broken, it really needs a coherent overhaul to change the way we do medicine in this country.
Yup and without that discussion in a logical thoughtful way, those with insurance will see their premiums go up or their coverage via employers dropped. Real wages will not grow for the middle class without health care reform. Perhaps we should give some of the protesters their wish and get the government out of their Medicare and watch the look on their face the next time they go to the doctor and find out they have no coverage.
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