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Old 10-29-2009, 08:58 AM
 
11,267 posts, read 11,279,851 times
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Quote:
People are being let got just before they can claim their retirement pension. These people were grandfathered in when the pension plan was abolished about ten years ago but this is how the company seems to be getting around paying it out to them.
This is illegal, isn't it? Who don't they get together and file a class action lawsuit to at least force the company into some kind of negotiation to settle on something fair for the former employees?

Quote:
I inherited lots of debt from my parents
Is this possible? My understanding was that your deceased parents debt obligations end with their death. Children cannot inherit their debt unless they pledged their own assets to cover their parents' bills.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:33 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,641 posts, read 40,010,157 times
Reputation: 23801
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is illegal, isn't it? Who don't they get together and file a class action lawsuit to at least force the company into some kind of negotiation to settle on something fair for the former employees?
Very large and powerful company with explicit 50 page termination agreement - class action is in process but deemed unlikely successful. (Let 200,000+ employees go and was very careful to have a balanced age distribution)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Is this possible? My understanding was that your deceased parents debt obligations end with their death. Children cannot inherit their debt unless they pledged their own assets to cover their parents' bills.
Parents didn't die, they became disabled and required eldercare for next 30 yrs and resolution of outstanding debts had to be made, a personal choice of conscience. (Many debts to close friends and family + it was a small, close knit community)
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:57 AM
 
3,947 posts, read 3,267,263 times
Reputation: 11331
My Sister and ex brother in law are in that situation now. I think unemployment is now considered a career of sorts in the US. The old Andy Capp cartoons of the past are sufficient evidence of the long standing unemployment-as-job situation in the UK. In his bookThe End of Work Jeremy Rifkin posed the question of what would happen in the so called post market era when jobs were indeed rare, and enterprising individuals would be expected to begin small scale direct labor service ventures.

Of course the world was a far different place in 1995 when the book came out. We were then seeing the cracks in the foundation of all that was blue collar, now we see the extended reach of outsourcing as it attacks those who felt safe because of the nature of their work. It isn't really "forced retirement", when the future didn't hold any inate promise of some mailbox money in the first place, retirement is and was a planned thing, subject to all those defined benefit plans that US employers have begun to shirk on, permanent unemployment is not the same as retirement.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:47 PM
 
11,267 posts, read 11,279,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
My Sister and ex brother in law are in that situation now. I think unemployment is now considered a career of sorts in the US. The old Andy Capp cartoons of the past are sufficient evidence of the long standing unemployment-as-job situation in the UK. In his bookThe End of Work Jeremy Rifkin posed the question of what would happen in the so called post market era when jobs were indeed rare, and enterprising individuals would be expected to begin small scale direct labor service ventures.

Of course the world was a far different place in 1995 when the book came out. We were then seeing the cracks in the foundation of all that was blue collar, now we see the extended reach of outsourcing as it attacks those who felt safe because of the nature of their work. It isn't really "forced retirement", when the future didn't hold any inate promise of some mailbox money in the first place, retirement is and was a planned thing, subject to all those defined benefit plans that US employers have begun to shirk on, permanent unemployment is not the same as retirement.
I think this is a very important topic in its own right and might deserve a separate thread, but I've begun wondering about large swaths of populations being forced to consider unemployment as a "career" especially among the "over 40" crowd. This economy isn't just a recession, IMHO, it's a "new era" that we're going to have to learn to live with. Companies worldwide just cannot create enough jobs to put 95% of the world's workforce to work, except at starvation wage, and even then..... I read a very interesting article that stated that companies, with government's tacit agreement (off-shoring, NAFTA, CAFTA, etc.) have deliberately kept unemployment high. It's a tactic to control the few who are lucky enough to keep their jobs:
1. they don't demand raises
2. they do the work of 2-3 people
3. they are less likely to make rumbles out of fear of losing their jobs

Welcome to the Brave New World".
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Old 10-31-2009, 04:21 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,685,445 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
This is illegal, isn't it? Who don't they get together and file a class action lawsuit to at least force the company into some kind of negotiation to settle on something fair for the former employees?
It would be a matter of big corporate lawyers and their vast resources against people who have no access to that type of thing. And it would be dragged out in court for years. Most folks would be dead and buried before any settlement could be made if any would be made at all.

One way the company gets by paying out pensions is that there is a rule that in order to collect, an employee has to give three months notice before retiring. One really has to plan ahead to collect but more and more people who reach retirement age at my company continue to work if they are able to hang onto their jobs.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:26 AM
 
13,773 posts, read 33,926,841 times
Reputation: 10562
I too have seen ppl laid off before they could reach their 20 year pension to retire where I worked they would do things like do away with your job and make you bid on another one. Of course there was a diverse group but there were many older workers who didn't get hired.

They didn't force me but offered us a pkg to retire. When someone asked if they had to take it, the response was 'No' you can stay as long as you do your job. After 21 years of being a loyal hardworking employee and now I wouldn''t do my job?

I did check into working but you know it just wasn't worth the $10 an hour for 20 hours a week.
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Old 11-01-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,685,445 times
Reputation: 35449
What's interesting is that at my company they maintain they are not "laying off" people off but they are closing one branch office after another and letting people go whom they have decided after 20 or more years of service are not doing a good job.

The "letting go" is not considered a layoff I guess. Because of the rule that an employee must give three months notice in advance of retiring, they don't get their pension. No one is offered any type of package deal except for CEO's who were made to take early retirement.
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Old 11-01-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,641 posts, read 40,010,157 times
Reputation: 23801
In our case, I trained Asians who shadowed me for one yr. Then Job was gone (as well as ~300 at my site). We could stay and apply for any openings that might pop up (none), or take the 'adios' package that qualified for 2 yrs unemployment + paid schooling + a severance (Taxed at 40%).

This was about 6 yrs into a massive downsizing (~200,000 of 350k total workforce) and the severance package gets worse each time. It is now less than 1/2 of previous offers, but the folks currently active in unemployment are reaping a pittance of stimulus benefits. Those of us who have expired our benefits are out of luck. (and we no longer count as 'unemployed')
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:12 AM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,009,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I see this happening in my company all the time. People are being let got just before they can claim their retirement pension. These people were grandfathered in when the pension plan was abolished about ten years ago but this is how the company seems to be getting around paying it out to them.
Is this a company in the US? Are these full time employees? Something doesn't sound right here.

If they have been earning benefits for over 10 years, and it's an ERISA plan, the company can't just take them away. There is a piece of the puzzle missing here.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:16 AM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,009,821 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
It would be a matter of big corporate lawyers and their vast resources against people who have no access to that type of thing. And it would be dragged out in court for years. Most folks would be dead and buried before any settlement could be made if any would be made at all.

One way the company gets by paying out pensions is that there is a rule that in order to collect, an employee has to give three months notice before retiring. One really has to plan ahead to collect but more and more people who reach retirement age at my company continue to work if they are able to hang onto their jobs.
Okay, this can't be a US company with a qualified plan. It wouldn't take a team of lawyers on that one, just one call to the DOL and IRS.

What's the story?
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